Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill [HL]

My Lords, the amendment tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Knight, would remove all those important exceptions that were so passionately argued for by the noble Lord, Lord Patel, and many others during previous debates. I will attempt to address all the issues raised by noble Lords. I must first address the question of whether the Government’s position has changed on this issue. As the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, said, my noble friend had said that she would take this away and consider it. Very often in your Lordships' House, noble Lords are pleased when the Government do that and then decide on a different course of action. We regard that as one of the things we are very good at. I will go through the reasons why we did that; we have, of course, taken advice. Throughout the progress of the Bill, we listened carefully to the debate and considered our position accordingly. We reviewed our position on using cells in exceptional circumstances to create embryos for research without specific consent. The issue of interference with Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights was the position we revised on further information we received and which concluded that interference in this case was justified and proportionate. We identified that the use of cells to create embryos raised human rights issues under the article, and our view is that the principle of that has not changed. However, under the convention, interference with Article 8 can be lawful if justification can be shown for such interference which is necessary and proportionate. When this issue was first debated, the Government were not aware of sufficient evidence that would justify the removal of consent. However, following the evidence that emerged as a consequence of the debates in your Lordships' House and consultations with the Academy of Medical Sciences, the MRC, the Wellcome Trust and medical research charities, it became clear that the justification for an interference could be made provided that this was subject to stringent safeguards and limitations and that the exceptions to consent would be carefully drafted to reflect this. In short, the Government’s analysis of the convention has not changed but the evidence and the guidance available have. The Government wrote to the Joint Committee on Human Rights about this. I have a letter to the chair from my right honourable friend in the other place, Dawn Primarolo, in which she specifically raises the issues I outlined in my opening remarks on why Article 8 was compatible. I could read these out but they are quite lengthy. Yet they clearly draw the attention of the Joint Committee on Human Rights to this issue in full and the discussions that have taken place in this House. The Joint Committee raised no concerns as result of that communication. I hope that goes some way to explain what happened and what the Government then did about it. The noble Baroness, Lady Knight, was concerned that the researcher has to be satisfied that the person has a serious medical condition. The researcher would have to satisfy the HFEA that all the conditions were met before a licence would be granted. It is not that some researcher dreams something up and then goes ahead with it. A large number of conditions have to be fulfilled, which are outlined in the Bill. That is why it is quite a lengthy amendment. On the issue raised by the noble Baroness of requirements having to be met, all the circumstances have been set out and they would have to be met. The noble Baroness raised the issue that a child’s tissue should not be used without consent. A child’s tissue can be used to create an embryo only in limited circumstances, as I have previously set out. In other circumstances the use of tissue from children can also be used with the parents’ consent under the Human Tissue Act. That is not unique to this legislation. The noble Baroness drew attention to the fact that the word ““reasonable”” was used eight times. It will be for the HFEA to determine what is reasonable; for example, the reasonable grounds for believing that research of comparable effectiveness could not take place. I repeat again: this will not be for the researcher to determine but for the HFEA. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay, raised the issue that the amendment does not require that this will be of help to the person from whom the tissue has been taken. The person from whom the cells are derived may be seriously ill and may die before they could benefit from any treatment. Yet the Bill requires that it must be used to develop treatment for someone with a similar condition. This provision mirrors that in the Mental Capacity Act. The noble and learned Lord also raised the issue of stored cells and human admixed embryos. Cells that are stored from someone with a particular condition could be used with an animal cell. This could enable stem cells to be derived which could be studied to learn more about the process and mechanism of the disease. The noble Baroness, Lady O’Cathain, raised the issue of the donation of her body to science. I hope it will help to allay her fears that an objection can be registered to ensure that tissue is never used to create embryos for research. One of the conditions under paragraph 15G is that cells cannot be used to create embryos if the researcher has any information at all which suggests that the donor would have objected. These amendments are important for those rare exceptions where it may be appropriate for research to be carried out on tissue from someone who is not able to consent. To prevent this research would place unnecessary limits on finding potential cures. The stringent safeguards are appropriate and will ensure that this research will take place only where absolutely necessary. The provisions were debated previously in this House and also during debates in Committee in another place. These amendments were tabled in response to the compelling arguments put forward by the noble Lord, Lord Patel, and others in this House. They are also supported by the Academy of Medical Sciences, the Association of Medical Research Charities, the Medical Research Council and the Wellcome Trust, which provided briefing for today’s debate. These exemptions are rooted in exceptional circumstances. The potential for benefits to sufferers of serious conditions is too great to overlook, and any research that can be undertaken in the hope of better treating or curing these conditions must be allowed to continue. On that basis, I invite the noble Baroness to withdraw her amendment, and, if she presses it, I invite the House to resist it.