Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill [HL]

My Lords, I am pleased to follow the noble Lord, Lord Winston. I am particularly interested by his suggestion that things are interesting in science and must therefore always be pursued, looking specifically at the CERN experiment. I wish it well; I hope that it is back on the road—or, rather, underground and rotating—during next year. However, whether it is successful or not, as far as I know it does not raise any great ethical issues. Physics has in the past raised ethical issues, such as nuclear and other related matters, but CERN does not. I do not doubt that, for many scientists, work on embryonic stem cells is extremely interesting, but it comes up quite hard against some difficult ethical questions. I know that the noble Lord recognises that, and I agree with him that we must be moderate in how we discuss these issues. That is why I strongly support the noble Lord, Lord Alton, in his amendment for two reasons that I shall state briefly, as befits us at this stage of the consideration of the Bill. First, it is reasonable and proper to ask science to demonstrate that there are no alternatives before using admixed cells in this way. To the best of my knowledge, no one has been able to stand up and say that there are no alternatives. That phrase often fell from our lips in another place on economic matters, but I do believe that no alternatives have been demonstrated in this area. The second reason is that I am told—perhaps the Minister, with his characteristic courtesy, will confirm this point or correct me—that there is nowhere in the world any existing cure, properly approved by the relevant regulatory authorities in that territory, which uses embryonic stem cells, whether admixed or not. There is nothing that is actually working so far.