European Union (Amendment) Bill

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Neill of Bladen, very helpfully went into a great deal of detail. In support of his amendment, I would like to try and refine the issues. In essence they are quite simple. The Government wish to limit the jurisdiction of the European Court when it comes to the charter of fundamental rights and to exclude it entirely in the area of foreign and security policy. They say that the protocol and the opt-out are necessary in Britain’s interests but plenty of very knowledgeable people have said that neither the protocol nor the opt-out is watertight. I am not going to rehearse in detail what has been said by the Commons committee, Open Europe and other bodies, but I would remind your Lordships that the EU Committee of this House says at paragraph 5 of its report: "““The interpretation of the protocol is a matter for the courts and … we do not think it is possible to predict precisely what the courts would decide if faced with the task of interpreting the Protocol’s language””." You can say that again. It is also interesting to note that paragraph 7.40 of the impact assessment records: "““Open Europe expressed scepticism that the Court could be kept out of the CFSP, submitting that the extent of the [ECJ’s] jurisdiction over areas within CFSP remains unclear””." The relevant passage in the evidence is C39, and it is plain from that evidence that Open Europe is not alone in taking that view. So the question arises of what happens if the European Court determines that the protection Britain thought she had won, and the protection that the other member states thought they had given Britain, simply does not exist. Some in this place seem to say that there is only one answer, ““Bad luck Britain. The court is supreme and master of its own jurisdiction. Sorry, Britain, but the court has concluded that you were sold a pup””. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Slynn, even went so far as to say: "““There is no way that a regional system of justice can avoid accepting the principle of uniformity””.—[Official Report, 14/5/08; col. 1057.]" The use of the word ““regional”” slightly grated with me. It is hardly encouraging and throws light on the cast of mind of some engaged in the European project, but I shall pass over that. The point is that those remarks made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Slynn, were a prelude to his conjuring up a picture of chaos which he thought would result if each country’s court could place its own interpretation on European law. But where is the risk of chaos when we are not talking of every country claiming the right to disagree with the Court’s interpretation of a law properly passed but about what is to happen when the Court claims jurisdiction in an area where every country has decided at the time of ratification of the treaty that it has no business in that area? Judging by his speech on 15 January, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, does not seem to think that if the European Court was to conjure up new rights under our charter, our courts would have to apply them. Therefore, this amendment is designed to make plain that if the European Court of Justice tries to bite into the protection from its jurisdiction which the treaties have tried to afford, and which every member state has agreed to, a court in this country can rule that any such judgment or opinion will not be binding in the United Kingdom. It is really a matter of belt and braces and a reinforcement of the protection the Government say is necessary, the protection which the Government have tried to procure through the protocol and the opt-out. How on earth can that be bad? I shall not repeat what the noble Lord, Lord Neill of Bladen, said about Poland and Germany except to pose the question: why should the United Kingdom not assert in the same way as Germany and Poland have done that it has the right to judge whether the ECJ has gone beyond the four corners of the treaties? I am happy to support the noble Lord’s amendment.