European Union (Amendment) Bill

It is a pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, because I agree with much of what she said, particularly the note on which she ended; namely, that we are more likely to be able to achieve objectives working with our partners than working singly. It is obvious that compromises will from time to time be necessary, and the common position may not be the same as that which we would have wished the European Union ideally to have taken or which we would have taken if we were able to act alone. However, when one looks back over the experience of recent years, one finds that the extent to which common positions compromised the position with which we started when we were dealing with our European allies is infinitely less than has been the case when we have found ourselves dealing with our great ally, the United States. I agree with my noble friend Lord Lamont that nothing should drive us away from the United States and that our alliance with it is important, but we are not unique in wishing to have a close connection with the United States. Germany, France, Holland, Italy and every other state in Europe wishes to have that; it is not some British peculiarity. The position of the United States in the world is so powerful that everybody wishes to be closely connected with it. The Iraq experience has perhaps taught us that, while the French were unable to make much of an impact on the United States by seeking to prevent it doing what it wanted, we were unable to have much of an impact on the United States by supporting it in everything that it wanted. Both the French and the British have learnt no end of a lesson. If one wishes to influence the United States, which one does—because it is obvious that nothing very much can happen in the world if the United States is not involved—it is much more likely that one will be able to do so if we are singing from the same hymn sheet as our partners in the European Union. If there is more weight on the European end of the see-saw than we alone are able to put on it, there is more likely to be an agreement with the United States that runs closer to our interests than has perhaps been the case in the recent past. The noble Lord, Lord Blackwell, drew a distinction between Britain’s outward-looking interests and the narrow interests of our Continental allies. That theme runs through the speeches of many opponents of the European Union and of this treaty, but it is mistaken. Just as everybody wishes to have a close relationship with the United States, so one will see in the patterns of trade of France, Germany, Holland, Italy or any of the other trading nations in the European Union that they, too, wish to export a great deal to China, India and the burgeoning economies in the East. One will see that they, too, are seeking closer relations with the new powers in the Pacific area. Looking outward to Asia and the Pacific, again, is not some unique British characteristic; it is something that any right-minded European country wishes to do. It is a slightly backhanded compliment to the way in which the Chinese view Europe that it is the French in particular whom they have picked out for retribution over the mishaps of the Olympic flame, although the flame had pretty much as bad a time of it in London as in Paris. That perhaps shows that, in a certain way, the profile of the French in China is perhaps higher than ours. It is therefore false to draw a distinction between narrow Continentals and worldwide Britons. I agree that Britain must ultimately be able to act alone to preserve its right to independent action. But that is very much a last resort. If we find that we are unable to carry any of our friends in the European Union and are isolated in pursuit of an international objective, it might suggest, first, that our case is not as overwhelmingly strong as we would like to think and, secondly, that we are unlikely to be able to prosecute our position very successfully. We are much more likely, as the noble Lord, Lord Robertson, pointed out, to be able to pursue our objectives successfully in the world if we are able to do so in partnership with others. He and others here may remember that great American diplomat, George Vest, who at one time was the American ambassador to the European Union and ended his career as director-general of the United States diplomatic service or the State Department—I cannot remember his precise title. He always used to talk about the habit of co-operation in the European Union and how effective it was in enabling countries to reach common positions even when they started some way apart. He was always impressed by the degree to which the constant communication and exchange of information and views between the members of the European Union enabled them to begin to see issues from much the same angle, and to reconcile differences and bring their influence to bear. That is how the European Union develops, not according to the rather hard and fast, black and white rules that the noble Lord, Lord Blackwell, was talking about. Finally, I take up a couple of the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Owen. He made a very important distinction, which is not drawn often enough, when he talked about the difference between a common foreign policy and a single foreign policy. It is an important distinction and I am absolutely in agreement with what he said on that subject, and his point about the external offices of the European Union. The European Commission, both when I was a Commissioner and since, has sometimes been too enthusiastic about wanting to set up offices here, there and everywhere. They have a purpose. The ambassador who was kind enough to give my noble friend Lord Lamont whisky late at night could, perhaps, have devoted more of his energies to finding out what the European office did. Often, they run important aid programmes or deal with trade relationships. I remember when Sir Roy Denman was head of the European Commission office in Washington. He played an important part in multilateral trade negotiations, as I am sure my noble friend Lord Brittan would concur. At different times, the European Commission office in Japan has played an important role. Certainly, there has been a tendency to set up too many, with sometimes ill defined objectives. If we are moving forward with this external action force and having external offices, the noble Lord, Lord Owen, makes the point that their credibility will be enhanced if there is a strong representation from the larger European countries with the most experience of international relations and the most interests in the most far-flung parts of the globe. That would certainly be desirable. When one looks at the totality of the issues covered by these amendments, the treaty as it stands, though not perfect, enables the European Union to continue to develop. In conclusion, I refer again to the noble Lord, Lord Blackwell. He said that the European Union was designed for the last century. Yes, it was designed in the last century and it did very well in helping to preserve peace in Europe, in helping to encourage democracy in the member states, and in contributing to the spread of democracy and human rights over a far wider area of Europe than has ever been seen before. It was devised in the last century and it did very well in the last century. Now we are putting it into a position to operate equally effectively in this century. As the noble Lord, Lord Ashdown, and others have pointed out, this debate should be about how Europe performs in the future, as well as how it has performed in the past.