Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill

My Lords, it seems as though I must now address my amendments, which I am very happy to do. In doing so, perhaps I could also address Amendments Nos. 57 and 58, under other clauses, which relate to extended sentences. It will save time if I deal with them together because they relate to the same point. The noble Lord knows the arguments which I wish to advance, so I can be brief. Everyone accepts that it is the duty of the Government to protect the public, in so far as the public can be protected, from very dangerous offenders. That was the purpose of Section 225 of the 2003 Act. However, the Government now accept that the provisions in Section 225 of the 2003 Act have misfired. Mr David Hanson in the other place accepts that the provision no longer serves what he described as a proper purpose. It is not serving a proper purpose because it catches offenders who ought not to be caught; it is catching criminals who are guilty of quite minor offences of violence and yet are being made subject to indefinite sentences of imprisonment. As my noble friend Lady Stern said, it is catching children and subjecting them to indefinite sentences of imprisonment. As a consequence, there will soon be some 5,000 offenders serving indefinite sentences, which is far in excess of what was ever anticipated. The number is increasing at the rate of 1,800 a year, and it is estimated by the Home Office that it will exceed 12,000 by 2011. With a population of prisoners now estimated to exceed 85,000 by this time next year—the answer which the noble Lord gave in reply to my noble friend on Monday—it is quite clear that something has to be done urgently to inhibit any further increase in the number of those serving indeterminate sentences. That is the view of the Chief Inspector of Prisons in her recent report and the view of the noble Lord, Lord Carter of Coles. Happily, the Government have accepted that view and, as a result, Clause 30 will give judges a discretion whether to impose an indeterminate sentence or not. The word now is ““may””—not ““must””. That is clearly a step in the right direction, for which we must all be grateful. Moreover, under Clause 13, indeterminate sentences will be available only where the tariff is two years or more, which is another step in the right direction. But it goes nothing like far enough to make any difference to the present problem of overcrowding. If we are to stop overcrowding getting worse, let alone reduce the present level of overcrowding, the indeterminate sentence must be reserved now for really serious offenders; in other words, those with tariffs of four years or more. And that is the purpose of my amendment. It will be said no doubt that whether one chooses two years or four is a matter of judgment. That is of course true, but the judgment should be based on facts and not on political expediency. The crucial fact here is the remorseless increase in the prison population. The indeterminate sentence is also a cause of great injustice. Those who have served their tariff sentence remain in prison indefinitely in the hope that they will in due course come before the Parole Board, but the Parole Board is already overstretched and its position will become a great deal worse during the coming year. That there are people in prison who are waiting to go before the Parole Board and who have served their tariff sentence is a possible cause of unrest in prisons. There are two reasons for supporting the amendment. In the first place, we can do something now about overcrowding and prevent a situation which is already bad getting worse. Secondly, we can do something to remedy a source of serious injustice to those who are serving these sentences.