Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill

My Lords, it would be unfortunate if my noble friend were to feel that he was being congratulated only by those on other Benches rather than from his own. I congratulate him very warmly on having introduced the amendment and I qualify my warm congratulations only by saying that the glass of enlightenment still is far from full—it seems slowly, drip by drip, to be filling rather than emptying—as my noble friend and his colleagues come to grips with some of the problems that we have discussed on this amendment and similar amendments. I have two observations to make about the text of the amendment. There have been various references to the UN convention, our obligations to children and the importance of recognising that in our legislation. The amendment is significant because it talks not about ““children”” but about the ““offender””. That is immensely significant because it leads on to suggest that we must move towards tailor-made systems that really examine the predicament and situation of the individual child caught up in what has happened and what he has caused to happen. We must see what will enable a child to become a rehabilitated, positive and creatively participating member of society, taking a responsible role in society. Whenever we talk about welfare we need to expand that to spell out what we really mean because welfare could be a matter of protecting a child. I believe that the convention and any enlightened approach to these matters suggest that we must have a policy which is far more imaginative than simply looking at welfare. We need to look at the rehabilitation of the individual concerned. I hope that my noble friend will forgive me for making those points, but within the context I thank him for having brought the amendments, because they help us to create a dynamic for moving forward. As we move forward, I wonder whether we shall more frequently look at what is happening north of the border in Scotland. I am impressed that, for 40 years, they have had working rather successfully in Scotland the panel hearing system, which looks not only at the particular individual offence of which the child is accused, but the whole situation of the child, of which the offence is a part, and what will be appropriate for helping to put things right. It is true that that has so far operated only for children up to 16, but as I understand it, active consideration in Scotland is being given to the possibility of extending it to 18. I hope that, as we all consider the future, we are not too proud south of the border to learn from those who seem to be having some success in these respects north of it.