Local Transport Bill [Lords]

I do not believe that any authority has been forced to adopt any particular scheme, although there is money for which authorities can bid if they wish to introduce innovations in their areas. I shall deal later with the issue of congestion charging. As I was saying, quality contracts empower local transport authorities and give them choice, and I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend the Minister and her colleagues for finally moving in that direction. Some of us had been arguing for some time that the present arrangements were not working, and that we needed to do something about them. However, I still have reservations about the procedure. I fear that, ultimately, it could allow an unelected approvals board to second-guess and override the decision of an elected transport authority. I take on board the point—I shall want to pursue it further if I am involved in the Committee stage—that there might be dialogue with the approvals board; it might want to make some suggestions for the transport authority to look at to improve the scheme. I have no problem with that. My problem is that if the approvals board says it does not believe that it is in the public interest or represents value for money for a quality contract scheme to be adopted in an area, will that mean that it cannot be adopted, because that would override the view of a local, elected, accountable body? To refer to an interesting point made by the hon. Member for Lewes (Norman Baker), before he spoke I had already written down in my notes the idea of having a statutory consultee. In considering whether to move to a quality contract or what the best approach is for local transport in an area, if a transport authority were required to take on board comments from statutory consultees, of which an approvals board could be one, that would enable input from such a board, but in the end it would be up to the transport authority to make the decision. If the authority overrode the advice of the approvals board, that could be taken into account in any challenge in a future court case. Appeals could still be made to the transport tribunal to ensure that the transport authority had followed the procedure laid down in coming to its decision. The idea is that the transport authority has to go through a certain procedure, then the approvals board has to go through one as well and almost second-guess the process—I welcome the fact that it has to do it within the time frame that the Minister laid down—and then there is a tribunal that is meant to be held instead of judicial review, although there can be a judicial review as well. My hon. Friend the Member for Pudsey said that that was like replacing the high jump with a marathon; I think it replaces it with a series of high hurdles. It is possible that the democratically elected transport authority might fall before it crosses the finishing line. I feel uncomfortable with the amount of second-guessing going on and the fact that the approvals board can override purely in terms of its views about value for money or public interest. I would want to explore that further in later stages of the Bill's passage. I agree with hon. Friends who have said that some of the bus operators are so determined to prevent this from happening that they will go to judicial review whatever consideration is given by whatever body before a quality contractor is brought into place. I am pleased that my right hon. Friend the Minister has recognised the issue of the potential threat of withdrawal of services by operators and will allow powers for the PTAs to run or purchase buses in the meantime as an interim measure; that is helpful. If we are to have real competition in moving towards quality contracts, she might also have to address the issue that South Yorkshire looked at concerning the provision of depots and of the PTE owning them in future, instead of an existing monopoly supplier being in a position to dictate terms and conditions. These are details, however, and the Government's general approach of allowing choice locally is in principle welcome, and can move us forward from the current poor situation that many of my constituents find themselves in. On integrated transport authorities, I welcome the Government approach of allowing local arrangements to be formulated at local level. We get ourselves in an awful mess if we are prescriptive about how things should operate, when there are many different local circumstances in different parts of the country. The Government should be congratulated on their hands-off approach. There are reservations, however, about the possibility of non-elected members being able to have a vote on transport authorities. In Sheffield, the city region is partly in South Yorkshire and partly in north Derbyshire, north Nottinghamshire and north Lincolnshire. A lot of people who come to Sheffield to work or for entertainment or other reasons live outside not only the city or county, but the region. There must therefore be possibilities for expanding the local passenger transport authority boundaries with the consent of, and after consultation with, the authorities and population in other areas, if we are to have a sensible long-term approach to passenger transport in the area. Again, the Government's flexible approach allows for such local arrangements to be introduced if they are thought appropriate. My hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Hillsborough and I are probably two of the few people in Sheffield who have put their heads over the parapet and said that we support, in principle, the idea of a congestion charge scheme in the city. Such a scheme is probably inevitable in the medium term, let alone in the longer term. I am pleased that the Government now recognise that the decisions about such schemes in cities should be made at local level. I shall draw a contrast: if local authorities can be trusted to get this right, cannot they be trusted to get quality contracts right too? In one case an unfettered power is being given—although there must be consultation, ultimately the decisions lie with the local authority—but the same thing is not quite being offered on quality contracts. One thing rightly pointed out by hon. Members—my hon. Friend the Member for Tyne Bridge (Mr. Clelland) has mentioned this—is the need to improve public transport before congestion charge schemes are introduced, because there must be that alternative. I accept that getting the money up front is difficult, but the New Local Government Network has come up with an idea on tax, income and funding as a general principle for local government, and central Government ought to examine it. It suggests that local government should be able to anticipate the projected future revenues of a congestion charge scheme and borrow against those so that it can fund up front the capital improvements necessary in public transport before the scheme is fully introduced and motorists have to pay. Ideas have been proposed in this area, and I hope that Ministers will examine them. One of the things that makes my heart sink is when someone walks into my surgery to complain about a local bus service, because I know that, in reality, I will probably not be able to do anything about a legitimate grievance. Other hon. Members have touched on that point. I have been in this House since 1992, and I have argued strongly on many occasions for a change in the legislation on passenger transport, because the bus service provision substantially disadvantages many of my constituents. The Bill offers the opportunity for many of my constituents who do not have it to get the bus services that they need and deserve. I welcome and support the Bill.