Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill

I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Henley, for moving the amendment and to the noble Baroness for speaking to it. Of course, the amendments were tabled out of legitimate concern that the new measures should be implemented fairly. However, I hope to persuade the Committee that, while the amendments have obviously been tabled for the best of reasons, they would seriously undermine the aim of the new orders, which is to deter unscrupulous retailers from selling tobacco to children and young people aged under 18. This is a serious sanction for a serious breach of the law. Amendments Nos. 177AB and 177AD would reduce the maximum penalty for persistently flouting the law and selling tobacco to under-18s from a one-year ban on selling tobacco to a three-month ban. That would have the unfortunate effect of removing the deterrent against unscrupulous retailers selling tobacco to children. If the maximum penalty were only three months, an unscrupulous retailer might consider that he could afford to risk a restricted premises closure whereby the premises would be closed for up to three months for the sale of tobacco, after which he might resume business and continue to sell tobacco to people under the minimum age. While we appreciate the potential impact of a lengthy order on retailers, we are determined to deter all shops, whether large, small or medium, from selling tobacco to young people. Of course, the orders will be reserved for serious cases where the law is persistently being flouted. Twelve months is the maximum period for a ban on the sale of tobacco, not the minimum or the guidance period. Magistrates will determine the actual length of a ban in light of all the circumstances of the individual case. It is perhaps common sense to say that the 12-month period is likely to be reserved for the most serious cases. Amendments Nos. 177AC and 177AE would reduce, from two years to three months, the period over which persistent breaches of the law on selling tobacco to under-18s have to be demonstrated. Before an order is given, at least three tobacco offences must have been committed over the two years up to the date of the order. In practice, offences relating to the sale of tobacco to under-18s are typically demonstrated through test purchasing for compliance with age of sale for tobacco, undertaken by trading standards. On average, such test purchasing takes place for each tobacco retailer about once or twice a year. Also, it will take some time from the commission of an offence to the date when the magistrates’ court considers the order. The amendments would reduce the period over which that persistent sale must be proven to such a short period—from two years to three months—that the proposed orders would not be usable. Given that test purchasing takes place only once or twice a year, it would simply not be possible to demonstrate that three offences had taken place over a three-month period. We think that the two amendments would kill off the legislation. New orders would become entirely ineffective; they would become a laughing stock. I hope that the noble Lord will reconsider his amendments and be kind enough not to press them this afternoon. The noble Baroness, Lady Miller, has twice mentioned the primacy of education for young people. On behalf of the Government, I agree that it is absolutely crucial. National communications campaigns, which she will know about, have been highly effective and are continuing. They encourage people of all ages to stop smoking—of course, it remains legal for adults to smoke if they choose to do so—and they outline the dangers of smoking to people’s health. The noble Baroness will know that there is a lot of education going on for young people; there can hardly be too much. We agree that it is the primary way of stopping young people smoking—certainly not the measure that may or may not be proposed in the next amendment.