European Union (Amendment) Bill

I shall follow your advice, Mrs. Heal. Let me turn to the Liberal Democrat position on referendums and on whether we should have one. It is time that the hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Mr. Davey) came out. It is not that difficult in the end. It may mean being condemned by the Daily Mail and The Sun, but the truth is that it is fine to be a genuine pro-European. It is time that he and the hon. Member for Moray (Angus Robertson), who is not in the Chamber, owned up to the fact that they are pro-Europeans. The Liberal Democrats cannot hide that fact from the electorate. They cannot pretend that they really want a referendum, but that the wording is not right. They should put their heads above the parapet and own up to being the most pro-European party in the House, and to the fact that they would have signed up to whatever Europe had thrown forward. The truth is that this is a proxy debate. It is not really about referendums. It is about whether people want to be securely and firmly in the European Union, because they believe that in an uncertain world it is important to have stronger international institutions, or whether they believe that Britain can go it alone. I do not agree with the hon. Member for Stone, who has moved but who, I am glad to say, is still in the Chamber. I believe that there will not be a fundamental change. We will still set our own taxes, and have our own Army and Navy, and our own foreign and defence policy. There will not be a substantial change, which is why there should not be a referendum.