Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill

We accept that in relation to domestic violence and that is the basis on which we are approaching this. It certainly will not pick up people who are just making a noise and doing things like that. We are all used to that; those things happen. It is for people on whom a proper risk assessment has been done and who are considered a real risk to the public. This is not going to be done to lots of people. It is another arrow in the quiver to deal with that small group of people whom we cannot control in any other way. One of the main roles of government is to protect the people and I believe that this measure will do that. I am afraid that there are areas of our inner cities and other parts of the country where people are terrified of others acting in certain ways. This is a way of protecting them. It is up to magistrates to use their experience and common sense to assess the risk and the level of conditions to be used, although we are giving indicative conditions. I have faith in their ability to do that sensibly. The noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, asked why we need violent offender orders when we have public protection sentences. We intend violent offender orders to build on and to complement other public protection measures. As I said, they are another arrow in the quiver. I agree that they are not perfect, but they will provide a further tool to ensure the ongoing protection of the public from the most dangerous violent offenders who are considered to pose a risk of serious violent harm. The judiciary will have to assess that risk. In particular, violent offender orders will address certain current gaps in the risk management arrangements. I shall set out those gaps, which may answer some of the questions. First, as the Committee will be aware, the public protection sentences were not introduced until 4 April 2005. That means that there is no provision for the ongoing risk management of violent offenders sentenced prior to that date. Secondly, since the introduction of public protection sentences, the point at which an individual comes to the end of their licence period varies according to the type of sentence that an individual was given for the original qualifying offence. In all cases, there could be a point at which an individual’s sentence for the qualifying offence has expired or been revoked but his or her behaviour has since come to the attention of the police or other authorities as being sufficiently high risk to require further management or supervision. Finally, because risk is such a dynamic concept, there may be times when individuals who were not considered dangerous enough to warrant an indeterminate or extended sentence at the point of conviction are later considered to pose a risk of serious violent harm to the public and to themselves. Having identified those gaps in risk management arrangements, we cannot ignore them. We have a duty to ensure the protection of the public from serious violent harm. Violent offender orders are an important tool in achieving that. The orders closely mirror other civil preventive orders, particularly sexual offences prevention orders, which have proved to be a highly valued tool for managing the risks posed by sex offenders and have been welcomed by public protection agencies and local communities. The time has come for us to acknowledge the important role that civil orders play in the protection of our public. They reduce harm and reassure communities that the Government place the protection of the public at the heart of everything that they do. That reassurance and change of perception are extremely important, because fear erodes the quality of life for a considerable number of our people. As violent offender orders have progressed through Parliament, we have listened carefully to the points raised in the other place and by experts in the field, including the Standing Committee for Youth Justice and the Joint Committee on Human Rights. We thank the Joint Committee on Human Rights for its input; it is important and we have looked at it. In the light of the concerns that have been raised, we have written to noble Lords, who will have received my letter at varying times. I am most impressed at the precision of that, which is slightly better than the tactical UHF circuits in Her Majesty’s warships. I was getting the timing precisely to the minute, which was most impressive. The amendments will make seven separate changes to Part 9. First, we will set out in the Bill an indicative list of the conditions that could be imposed as part of an order or interim order, in the same way as for serious crime prevention orders. Secondly, we will provide that interim violent offender orders should be made only where there is clear evidence to support the case for a full violent offender order. This will be on the basis of prima facie evidence, or similar. Thirdly, we will provide that interim violent offender orders are non-renewable, while lifting the current four-week limit on their duration. Fourthly, we will provide for the applicant and the offender to have the right to be heard during the making of an order. Fifthly, we will exclude under-18s. Sixthly, we will introduce a maximum length of time, namely five years, for which orders can be imposed unless renewed. Finally, we will specify more clearly in the Bill that violent offender orders can be used only to protect the public from a current risk of serious violent harm. That is a comprehensive package of changes, which addresses the legitimate concerns that have been raised. I can see that people feel very strongly about this, and we have considered carefully how to address some of those concerns in our amendments, which cover a large number of them. We cannot leave the public exposed to any known risk of serious harm, and there is a real risk of that. This is aimed at plugging that gap. As a Government, we should do everything in our power to protect the public and reduce serious violence. Without doubt, violent offender orders reduce fear, and I believe that they will also save some lives. That in itself is worth doing. The amendments in this group were to do with protecting a specific named person or named persons from the risk of violent harm. As noble Lords will be aware, the purpose of the violent offender orders is to provide a means of continuously protecting the public from the most dangerous violent offenders. Violent offender orders will only ever be made on the basis of an up-to-date risk assessment. The noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, stressed that this risk will sometimes be targeted at a known specific individual, which is correct; that is a much easier case. However, this will not always be the case. Sometimes the risk will be targeted at a group of individuals, for example in the case of hate-related violence. In the Bill, for example, we have already considered the need to protect lesbian and gay people from the dangers of incitement to hatred and the violence that this can lead to. In some cases, it will simply not be possible to predict any individual target and it will be more general. Let me make it clear that just because the risk of violence is not focused on one specific member of the public, it does not mean that the risk does not exist. Over the past few years, we have all read in the press about numerous unpremeditated violent attacks against innocent members of the public, some of which have been quite ghastly and obscene—the press loves reporting those. The victims of such attacks were not targeted in advance by their attackers and it would not have been possible to predict their specific risk of victimisation. It is precisely these attacks that prove that we must be able to protect the wider public from the risk of violent harm. Violent offender orders, as currently provided for, allow us to do this by enabling the court to place restrictions on an individual, where needed, to protect the public as a whole from the risk of serious violent harm. We have a duty to protect the public. It would be irresponsible and inappropriate to narrow the scope of violent offender orders. They must be available to protect both specific individuals and the wider public. I therefore ask the noble Lord to withdraw his amendment.