Employment Bill [HL]

I wanted to hear what the Minister had to say before getting up and saying anything. From what little past experience I have of trade unions, disputes, ACAS and this and that, I was beginning to accept the rectitude of the way that this was put by the noble Lord, Lord Wedderburn. He was saying, ““Look at the record of ACAS””—and I need not repeat what he said. After that, the record clearly supports the approach of the noble Lord, Lord Wedderburn, and the Minister. It seems to me that this has to be left as a voluntary position, free from statutory compulsion. In my experience, there were union/union disputes and union/employer disputes but I was never instructed in an employer/employee dispute. However, in disputes where I was instructed, the noble Lord, Lord Wedderburn, was usually the junior on the other side, and on many occasions his leader, who later became a High Court judge, and I used to sort out the mediation process between ourselves and it worked. When it did not work, we were in the position referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Wedderburn, where one side was bound to win and one side was bound to lose. Most of us at the Bar did not look at it in that way. It was an attempt at mediation and it very seldom worked. When it did, it did, but when it did not, the court decided and that was that. The trade unions have always observed the orders of the court. I am sure that the amendment is well intentioned, and I think that it was the noble and learned Lord, Lord Woolf, who was referred to as commending mediation. However, he was really more concerned with commercial cases than employment law cases, and I do not believe that he would have intended what he said to go beyond the sphere in which he practised and sat as a judge. Therefore, I am grateful for what the Minister said. I think he is right on this and I am bound to support the Government’s attitude.