Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill

My assumption is yes, but I will double-check to make sure and let the noble Earl know. Let me turn to the question in hand. Although we understand what noble Lords are getting at, we think—as has been hinted at already—that the amendments would set an entry point for custody so high that it could present a real risk to the public. Amendment No. 71 would mean that a young person could be sent to custody only where the offence caused or could have caused serious physical or psychological harm and where it is necessary, "““to protect the public from a demonstrable and imminent risk””" of such harm. The proposal could apply to some of the most serious offences, such as manslaughter, rape and wounding with intent to cause grievous bodily harm. There are provisions to deal with young offenders who are classified as dangerous in Sections 226 and 228 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003. This involves an assessment of whether the offender has committed an offence listed in Schedule 15 to that Act and whether they pose a significant risk of serious harm to members of the public. If someone commits one of the serious offences I have mentioned they will not be automatically assessed as dangerous. Most young offenders who commit such offences are given a sentence under Section 91 of the Powers of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000. The provisions in Section 152 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 apply at present to offenders who have committed one of the most serious offences but are not classified by the courts as dangerous. The amendment would mean that even when the most serious type of harm had been caused and if it could be proved that the young offender had deliberately caused grievous bodily harm with the intent to cause such harm, the court could not impose a custodial sentence unless the prosecution could also prove that, looking forward, it was necessary to protect the public from a demonstrable and imminent risk of serious physical or mental harm. Only then would custody be an option. There is a risk that if we accepted the amendment, notwithstanding that the prosecution could prove all the elements of the offence, the courts could not impose custody unless the prosecution could also show that there was a demonstrable and imminent risk of serious physical and mental harm. Such an offender would not necessarily meet the criterion of dangerousness in the amendment. We think that there is a risk that the custody threshold could be raised in a way that prevents the courts protecting the public from young people who have committed serious and violent crimes. I was very interested in the debate about 18 to 21 year-olds. I remind the Committee that in May last year, the then Minister at the Home Office made a Statement about young adult offenders. He said that, "““we are firmly committed to further work to ensure we plan for appropriate provision to address the specific needs of 18 to 24-year olds. We will progress a suite of proposals to enable us to test the best approaches both in custody and in the community by … piloting a specification for a new regime for this age group as an integral part of the new prison capacity building arrangements””.—[Official Report, Commons, 8/5/07; col. 7WS.]" Although I have some reservations about the amendment, I assure noble Lords that we accept the challenge presented by this age group. I have been alerted to an error that I made in some of the figures that I gave, for which I apologise. The figures that I gave as a snapshot of the offender population were for young offender institutions only. I shall give the overall figure for the young offender population: in June 2007, it was 2,928; in June 2006, it was 2,925. I offer to circulate to all noble Lords the full figures so that when we debate the matter again on Report we are all clear about what we are talking about.