Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill

I am not going to comment on the Bulger case. Of course there will be situations in which a child cannot understand that what he or she has done is wrong. Clearly you need a system that will respond to that. I was just making the general point that most people understand and support the idea of punishment. In my early days as a councillor in Oxford, I represented—I am not going to call it a sink estate because that would be pejorative—a council estate that had many challenges. Notwithstanding the difficult circumstances in which some young people are brought up, it is striking how many of them manage to do the right thing. One has to bear that in mind when considering these matters. This debate has taken place in the context of custody. The noble Earl, Lord Listowel, particularly focused on children who find themselves in custody. I hope I have made clear that this Government believe that custody is the last resort, that the construct of youth rehabilitation orders is to strengthen the whole community sentencing structure and that we see YROs and the general policy direction we wish to see embraced as one where punishment can be constructive.