Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill

I wholeheartedly endorse the comments that have been made across the Committee. It seems to me that there are two points that the Minister is not fleshing out as he might. If things need to be said in plain English, we should say them in plain English. First, the Minister seems to be suggesting that the age and emotional and intellectual maturity of children should be lumped together with things such as family circumstances. Everyone else seems to be arguing today that these are factors that are critical to any intervention. We know that they are factors that are critical because in health, for example, the age and emotional and intellectual maturity of children matter when they are being diagnosed. In schools, those factors are taken into account. Across a range of interventions where public policy comes up against the assessment of the child, those factors are critical. Does the Minister accept that point in principle? If he does, it could not follow that the court must take all those other factors into account. As the noble Lord, Lord Judd, said, all those factors stand in their own right in any event. Secondly, in the light of the passage of this Bill and the provisions concerning youth offending, have the Government carried out any surveys to find out what the public believe should be the approach to the sentencing of children where age and emotional and intellectual maturity—as the noble Baroness, Lady Stern, the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, and others have pointed out—are critical factors in their offending behaviour. We know that NGOs have carried out such a survey and that SmartJustice and others have looked into public attitudes. As for the point of robustness made by the noble Baroness, Lady Stern, we understand the Minister’s desire to have public confidence in the system but what evidence do the Government have for that?