Business of the House (Lisbon Treaty)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for South Staffordshire (Sir Patrick Cormack), because I find myself in agreement with so much of his speech. He will understand that that is not always the case—on matters cultural, yes; on matters political, not always. However, the points that he made are important ones. Sometimes, we in this House mislead ourselves by thinking that those who vote for us automatically understand what we do in Parliament. They do not really understand the procedures of the Houses of Commons and Lords. They do not understand the creation of a law, or the fact that non-lawyers can sit here and debate in great detail aspects of governance that affect our constituents at every stage of their lives. They rely, in an unspoken pact, on those who are elected to the House of Commons to represent their interests. That is what we are here for, and what they expect of us. They also rely on us to look closely at the work of the Executive, and to fulfil our responsibility in understanding what the Executive are proposing and how it will be translated into statutes and the law of the land. Frankly, I am not surprised that the press do not take a great interest in procedure and timetabling when we talk about that, because many people outside here do not understand that control of procedure in this place is what gives real power to those who manage our agenda. If, as a member of the Whips Office or a Cabinet Committee, someone manages to decide when their Bill is to be debated and how long for, who will sit on the Committee to debate it, when it will come back to the House and what will happen to it when it reaches another place, that gives them considerable advantages and, in some instances, can determine whether the Bill will get on to the statute book. When Members of Parliament are confronted with a timetable motion, they must ask themselves who will benefit from the procedure. They must ask who will get the advantage from ensuring that this House, which contains myriad different views on the political implications of this treaty, debates the matter at sufficient length for the people outside this House to understand the implications of what we are doing. I am concerned about the timetable motion. My right hon. Friend the Member for Leicester, West (Ms Hewitt), who is no longer in her place, was concerned that we were debating, raising points of order, disturbing the Minister and taking time. She felt that was not a serious way of proceeding to examine the substance of the debate, yet it is exactly what Members of Parliament are supposed to do. We are supposed to ask the Minister handling the Bill why they think that they have given us sufficient time closely to examine what is in the legislation. We should ask why the Minister thinks we are so worried about not having sufficient time to debate it. There are as many different views in the Conservative party about European legislation as there are in the Labour party. The Liberal Democrats may even have some differing views—I am not sure about that, but they have an endearing habit of inconsistency. Therefore, we ought to understand that we ought to have the right to express those views in this Chamber. I do not expect to agree with the right hon. Member for Suffolk, Coastal (Mr. Gummer) or the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke), who was my pair in a previous life. I can honestly say that it was a good idea that we were paired, because we did not agree on anything. The reality is that the House of Commons ought to examine the transfer of powers, the behaviour and rights of sovereign Governments, the constant and encroaching demands of European institutions across the board and the way in which those institutions introduce directives and regulations, and decide what will happen in so many of our basic industries. We ought to debate such things in this Chamber, not anywhere else. We ought not to rely upon television studios or articles in the press. The debate that means that the arguments can be tested ought to take place here. Let somebody argue with me about the strength of my views here, where I can be interrupted, where people can question and where they can put on the record the things about which they think I am wrong. We are not going to be given the chance to have that debate. I am concerned because the Labour party has always fundamentally believed in the free and fair treatment of human rights, yet in the chase for management control we are doing exactly those things that I would find wholly unacceptable in a Government of any other colour. It therefore behoves us to make it clear why we are so concerned tonight. The Minister for Europe is an engaging young man, and he perhaps gave us a little hint as to what the reasons are. He said that during the Maastricht debate the Chamber had been the resort of two or three lonely souls. If any individual Member of Parliament is not able to raise their own views either in here, even in an empty Chamber, or elsewhere in the House and demand that they are answered by a Minister, I will know fully and finally that we have come to the end of our democratic representation. I say to Ministers that of course it is more convenient to be able to restrict debate and it is always more comfortable for them to get their legislative programme on to the statute book in the way that they want, but they are saying to the House that they have changed the procedure, they are going to have thematic debates and hon. Members will be able to vote on their amendments afterwards—how very convenient. I love thematic debates and have no difficulty in taking part in them, but the reality is that in this place what matters is what goes on to the statute book, and that is framed in amendments, although they may frequently be confused and sometimes not very well drafted. That is what makes the law, that is what we are here to do and that is where our responsibility lies. Those who genuinely think that they can manage a matter of this importance, whatever one’s view, as though it were an agenda for a business meeting, betray their commitment not only to the House of Commons but to the democratic system. We believe in democracy and ask for our constituents’ trust because we know that we have a responsibility not to frame unfair, badly drafted, incompetent and wholly unacceptable laws—that is what we are here to guard against. This Parliament did not create itself overnight. It took many hundreds of years before we reached the stage where we were able to do that on an equal basis and in a responsible way that makes the world outside listen to us and talk about the mother of Parliaments. That, to me, is what matters. I came here many years ago because I believed that the House of Commons was the place where we took responsibility for writing, debating and understanding the laws, and for looking after the interests of our constituents and our voters. Those who bring forward a blatant piece of management, such as this timetable motion, seek to undermine that responsibility and it does them no credit.