Climate Change Bill [HL]

What has characterised the discussion so far is that everyone in this Chamber seems to agree that aviation emissions are an issue and that they need to be addressed. That is a common point. The question is: how should they be addressed? If I have one disagreement with the noble Lords from the two Front Benches who have put their names to the amendment, it is that the tone of their introduction implies that, because those emissions are not included in the Bill, the UK or the Government do not care about them and nothing will be done unless they are included in the Bill. We know that is not the case. For some time now this has been the subject of intensive negotiations in Europe. The Minister will no doubt tell us in more detail when he replies. On 20 December the European Council reached an agreement—the draft is now toing and froing and is to be dealt with by the European Parliament—to introduce a European scheme in 2012. I ask the movers of the amendment: what on earth is the point of seeking to put something in the Bill and asking the Committee on Climate Change and the Government to start doing something when a scheme is going to be introduced in 2012 for the whole of the European Union? If each of the 27 member states were of the same mind and passed legislation this year—all with different schemes, all applying to different airlines—it would be chaos. As members of a legislative Chamber of this Parliament, we owe it to people to tell them that this is best tackled at a European level. The issue is being tackled, it is being addressed, and robust and workable proposals have been agreed by the Council of Ministers. As I said, I am sure the Minister will speak to that. So it is not the case that the Government are sitting on their hands and that nothing will happen: the European scheme will start in 2012. It makes no sense to try to put something into the Bill in this form. If it was in the Bill—whatever the figures were—targets would have to be included in the first three budgets; by law, the climate change committee or commission, depending on what it is called, would have to include them. What is it going to include? Which flights? The noble Lord who introduced the amendment said that you would not include all departures and all arrivals. Why not? That is the proposal in the European scheme. His noble friend referred to overflights, many of which do not land here but simply overfly United Kingdom airspace. This is not the way to make legislation. My first point is that things are being done. It is not reasonable to convey and portray to the people who watch these debates and read about them in the press and Hansard that nothing is being done about this. To say that if it is not in this UK Bill it means that aviation is not being tackled is simply not true.