Climate Change Bill [HL]

Exactly, but a noble Lord on the Cross Benches with great experience of foreign affairs commented in the Joint Committee on the tortoise-like progress of those discussions in the international arena. The noble Lord who has just intervened has particular knowledge and experience of the timescales involved in such discussions. After all, in this Bill we are trying to give a lead and do things before there are agreements. It seems that at the very least, on Report, this clause should be amended so that it places on the Secretary of State and the committee the task of urgently examining the way in which this should be dealt with. It seems a serious omission from Clause 25 as it stands that no role is given on this matter to the Committee on Climate Change. Surely one of the priorities for the Committee on Climate Change and for the Government should be to address the issue. I shall certainly put forward—I should have done it sooner so that we could have discussed it today—an amendment for Report to make it a priority for the Government and for the Committee on Climate Change to examine the issue, to examine the problems as they exist and to come up as quickly as possible with solutions. One other factor that needs to be looked at as we discuss this issue was a matter of concern to the Joint Committee: once we have agreed that the definitions are right, what would the effect be? Would the effect of including aviation in the reported numbers, targets and budgets—I leave shipping on one side for the moment—be to put extra pressure on reducing the emissions from all other sources? Because we were adding something, did that mean that we would then have to make further reductions elsewhere, or, as the witnesses from the government departments seemed to argue, did we simply increase the grand total and go on from there? The Joint Committee felt that that issue also needed some urgent consideration, analysis and clarification from the Government in relation to their intentions. I support the various amendments put forward because they deal with an issue which needs to be raised. I do not believe that they solve the problem and I do not expect that my noble friend, when he comes to speak about his amendments, will think that he is solving the problem. These issues are complicated, but surely we need to emphasise today the importance of getting aviation and, as soon as possible after that, shipping included in the budgets and targets, and the importance of the Government and the Committee on Climate Change addressing that jointly as a matter of priority.