Welfare Reform Bill

I, for one, put up an invisible hand to accept the invitation—as did the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood—that the noble Baroness just made to view the computer actually working. But viewing it is not quite enough. The noble Baroness said that interested organisations had already viewed or had the opportunity to view the computer, but their complaint is that they, unlike myself, often have the knowledge to be able to test it. That is rather different from viewing it. As I said, I would certainly be extremely interested to see it and make up my own mind, but that is different from testing it. I want to make a further point. I agree that the department does have an extremely good record on evaluating research, which is a continuing process. However, the pilots cannot be expected to go on for ever. Sooner or later there will be a 100 per cent rollout across the country of the whole ESA. It is that point which our advisers are currently worried about because however good pilots may be, when there is a 100 per cent rollout the situation in some areas is bound to be different. That is our continuing worry.