Government of Wales Bill

moved AmendmentNo. 14: Page 83, line 31, leave out subsections (2) to (6) and insert- ““(2) The Secretary of State shall make representations to the Assembly as to how the relevant function has the effect described in subsection (1). (3) In considering whether or not to continue exercising that function, the Assembly shall have regard to- (a) the representations made by the Secretary of State under subsection (2); and (b) any adverse impact that would be had on Welsh water by the discontinuation of the relevant function.”” The noble Lord said: My Lords, unfortunately this amendment was first considered at the very end of business late at night. It addresses the situation set out in Clause 152: "““Intervention in case of functions relating to water etc.””." Subsection (1) of that clause states: "““This section applies where it appears to the Secretary of State that the exercise of a relevant function (or the failure to exercise a relevant function) in any particular case might have a serious adverse impact on,""““(a) water resources in England,""(b) water supply in England, or""(c) the quality of water in England””." My aim in proposing the amendment is simple: we want to establish a principle to provide for equality between England and Wales so far as water is concerned. We believe that this is a very reasonable matter to be asking for. Subsection (3) of the amendment states: "““In considering whether or not to continue exercising that function, the Assembly shall have regard to—""(a) the representations made by the Secretary of State under subsection (2); and""(b) any adverse impact that would be had on Welsh water by the discontinuation of the relevant function””." In other words, precisely the same situation as that which applies to water that runs to England. Water is indivisible since it usually runs down into the same river system. Surely it is right to achieve equality of the law, whether it is in England or Wales. River catchment areas flow from one country to another. Yet as the Bill is currently constituted, ““adverse impact”” is drafted only as it applies to England. As a Welshman I find the distinction rather extraordinary, so that if we can appeal to the English sense of fair play, we believe that equality must be the answer. In fact, the noble Lord, Lord Elystan-Morgan, tabled an amendment on Welsh water. I refer to one sentence from his contribution. He said very forcefully indeed that the power and scope of the Secretary of State’s jurisdiction in this matter is enormous. Without our amendment, this clause does not do justice to Wales. If one looks at the Bill from the point of view held on these Benches, we see no primary legislative powers yet. We have had long debates about when we might possibly get them. We have government responses that appear to say, ““But you might get some of these things””. We cannot say that the Government are actually denying us primary legislative powers because of the Bill’s ingenious process to pass at least Orders in Council, but it is not the type of legislative powers that we advocate. We believe that we do not have a fair voting system. We also believe that the Secretary of State has an over-burdening influence, as we have heard, on refusals, although we have just recently overcome that provision in a vote. There is also a veto on Assembly measures by either House of Parliament—an issue that we could debate for some time. Surely the Government must recognise that the issue of water in Wales, and the lack of equality with England, amounts to playing with fire. Water is one of the few remaining Welsh resources, but as far as one can see, as the Bill is drafted, even the Assembly will have no influence over it. An opinion poll was reported over the weekend that seemed to show that the people of England now favour, albeit marginally, the creation of an English Parliament. That is certainly not our policy, which is for regional parliaments in England, but if the percentage is creeping up over 50 per cent, as it seems to be, and if we have a new Government who are of a different persuasion, there could be an English Parliament with massive legislative powers. To slightly adopt a phrase used by a previous Member for Ebbw Vale: Wales could go naked into the Assembly Chamber without the necessary powers. And that could apply especially to water, a basic resource. That would leave Assembly Members with little or no power over basic resources in their own country. I find that totally unacceptable. In this amendment we are simply making a plea: please can we have equality in the clause? Water in Wales and water in England should be treated in the same way. The water issue should not be excluded from the Bill. I beg to move.