Government of Wales Bill

My Lords, that begs the question. The Executive to which these powers are being transferred are the same as the Executive here at Westminster: they are answerable and accountable to an elected Assembly. They have to get measures through using procedure that is almost identical to that used here for primary legislation. We are handing powers to an Executive in the Welsh Assembly and that Executive are directly accountable and answerable to that elected Assembly. That is not a shift of power to an Executive; it is a shift of power from this Parliament to the Welsh Assembly, from this Executive to the Executive in Cardiff. That is not centralising; it is genuine devolution. This is a devolution Bill and should not be portrayed in any other way. The Secretary of State’s power was portrayed in speeches from the opposition Benches as an autocratic decision made by one person. If a Secretary of State made a decision not to put an order before Parliament, he or she would be reflecting not a personal view, but the view of the Government of the United Kingdom, which would presumably hold a majority in this Parliament. Therefore, it does not seem unreasonable that the Secretary of State of the day should be made to give reasons for doing that. We all accept that the situation would be extraordinary, but this amendment would remove the provision requiring the Secretary of State who took such an extraordinary decision—presumably with the full authority of the United Kingdom Cabinet and Government at Westminster—to explain why he or she would not bring an order before both Houses. It seems reasonable to have a provision requiring the Secretary of State to give reasons for doing that, because I agree that it would be an extraordinary situation and something of a constitutional crisis, given that the United Kingdom Government would be overriding the request and the clear wish of the Welsh Assembly. There are two rights here. There are two democracies. There are occasions when we talk almost as if the only democrats who exist are in the Welsh Assembly. There are democrats here who are elected and have a right to express their views. If the United Kingdom Government of the day, for the most extraordinary reasons, which I find difficult to envisage, decided that they could not support the call for a referendum at that time, it is perfectly reasonable that provision should be made requiring the Secretary of State, on behalf of the United Kingdom, to give his reasons and to explain them clearly.