Government of Wales Bill

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Roberts, because he has largely made my case for me. The noble Lord, Lord Livsey, said that this amendment was radical. I know that ““radical”” is generally used in a positive way in politics in the 21st century, but the original meaning of the word is ““tearing up by the root””, which is what this amendment does. It tears up the concept of devolution by the root, because it conveys to the Assembly something very close to sovereign power. The amendment allows the Assembly to accrue to itself, of its own decision, any additional powers that it wants. When the noble Lord, Lord Livsey, sums up, can he provide an illustration of any sub-national assembly in the world, which is not sovereign, that has the right to increase its powers unilaterally, without any reference to the sovereign parliament from which it derives its original powers? If he could, I would be more than a little surprised. The amendment does not propose a concept of devolution, but an accession towards sovereignty. It would lead to a system of government entirely unrelated to the settlement that the Welsh people voted for in 1997; in fact, it would be outright independence rather than devolution. Amendments Nos. 6 and 7 are much milder in scope and tighten the deadline. If they were accepted, the Secretary of State would have no choice whatever, and the deadline would apply to nothing more than the process of handing the draft Order in Council to the Clerk. We see merits in the Secretary of State being able to deliberate on these matters and having some time before taking action. Those amendments are the minor part of this group, while Amendment No. 5 is the blockbuster, the radical reform. I know that noble Lords in the Liberal party are extraordinarily enthusiastic about devolution. I recognise the principle that they subscribe to; they have merit in doing that and they are joined by many other noble Lords, including some in my party. But the noble Lord is arguing for independence—that is a different matter.