Government of Wales Bill

moved Amendment No. 25:"Page 23, line 28, at end insert—" ““(   )   Subsection (3) does not apply to any matter under section 84(1).”” The noble Lord said: My Lords, I apologise to the Minister for not tabling this amendment in Committee. The truth is that I had not thought about it at Committee stage. It is a problem that occurred to me only as a result of rereading the Bill, as is my habit, between Committee stage and Report. The amendment, as is clear from the Marshalled List, seeks to disapply subsection (3) of Clause 37 to any matter under Clause 84(1). Clause 84(1), headed ““Construction of references to Ministers and departments””, reads as follows, in so far as it is relevant to the amendment:"““So far as may be necessary for the purpose or in consequence of the exercise of any functions of the Welsh Ministers, the First Minister or the Counsel General, any reference in any enactment or other document to—""(a) a Minister of the Crown . . . is to be construed as being or including a reference to the Welsh Ministers””." In other words, where a Welsh Minister is acting in the place of a Minister of the Crown, the expression ““Minister of the Crown”” is considered to apply to Welsh Ministers. In Clause 37, entitled ““Power to call””, which I seek to amend, subsection (1) states:"““Subject as follows, the Assembly may require any person—""(a) to attend Assembly proceedings for the purpose of giving evidence, or""(b) to produce for the purposes of the Assembly (or a committee of the Assembly or a sub-committee of such a committee) documents in the possession, or under the control, of the person,""concerning any matter relevant to the exercise by the Welsh Ministers of any of their functions””." Perhaps I may move on and draw your Lordships attention to subsection (3), which reads:"““The Assembly may not impose a requirement under subsection (1) on a person who—""(a) is or has been a Minister of the Crown””." I think your Lordships will readily see my concern. It appears that in so far as a Welsh Minister is acting in Wales on Welsh matters as a Minister of the Crown, rather than as a Welsh Minister, he or she cannot be compelled to appear in front of the Assembly, or any committee of the Assembly, and cannot be compelled to produce any documents that might be relevant to that appearance or for any other reason. If that is so, would I not be right in concluding that this is potentially a serious gap in the way in which the Welsh Assembly is capable of controlling the Executive? I beg to move.