Government of Wales Bill

My Lords, I am surprised at the length of the debate and the interest shown in it. It demonstrates that the present AMS system is very imperfect and that there is willingness to find a different way. The issue of the number in the Assembly is related to giving it more powers. There is no doubt that Orders in Council will mean a lot more work—not just two afternoons a week, I am sure. Other bodies, such as the Arbuthnott commission in Scotland, recommended STV. I shall come to that later. The noble Lord, Lord Rowlands, noted that there would be a difference between one-tenth and one-twenty-fifth. I cannot give him a precise answer now, but I will do so in writing, because I know the point is well researched. I recollect the noble Lord, Lord Trimble, speaking on this issue in Committee and was not surprised to hear him recount a number of his experiences in Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland and the Republic were given an STV system of election in 1920 but it was abolished in Northern Ireland in 1926. The noble Lord said that it had been operating again since 1973. I understand why he has these reservations, but I cannot accept them as a generality. I know that the Northern Ireland experience has not been what it might be, but it has been quite a success in the Republic.  Indeed, to my knowledge, two Protestant presidents have been elected by this system in the Republic.  That is quite interesting. The European Union proportional systems are different but are none the less popular and operate well, as we know from the experience in Germany. The noble Lords, Lord Anderson and Lord Trimble, mentioned that those in the first half of the alphabet seem to do rather better. In the Lobbies of the House of Commons you will find exactly the same thing regarding the first and second halves of the alphabet. In Wales, of course, there are many people called Williams, Jones and Roberts—I wonder how that would affect distribution. Issues of localism and the situation in relation to a constituency are important. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Elystan-Morgan, for pointing out the imperfections of the present system. I agree that the Labour Party was chivalrous in giving us the system that we have, but there is nothing wrong in trying to improve it. We will undoubtedly return to this question. It has been a feature of some speeches; even the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Conwy, indicated that we might return to this, and the Minister indicated something similar. Without more ado, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Clause 2 [Assembly constituencies and electoral regions]: [Amendment No. 2 not moved.] Clause 6 [Voting at general elections]: [Amendments Nos. 3 and 4 not moved.] Clause 7 [Candidates at general elections]: