Armed Forces Bill

I support clause 116, the matter having been rehashed for many hours in Committee. I usually listen to the hon. Member for Canterbury (Mr. Brazier) and I have a lot respect for him, but he has fallen into the trap that, unfortunately, a lot of people have on this clause. The myths that are being perpetrated by former members of the general staff are not doing them any credit. The hon. Gentleman referred to Lord Boyce. I would like to take a little time to remind the Committee of exactly what he said in the Select Committee. It may be easy to say in the comfort of the Chamber or in a newspaper that our armed forces are in a legal entanglement and cannot operate anywhere because lawyers are looking over their shoulders, but I deal with facts and I have tried to find examples of cases that have been so disproportionate in their effect that it would endanger the way we operate. I have not found one yet. I will refer to the case that the hon. Gentleman mentioned in a minute. I pressed Lord Boyce on the issue. I asked him:"““When you were operational were you aware of any situations which hindered the chain of command? Do you know of any examples?””" He replied:"““I commanded from the age of 28, from lieutenant through every rank up to admiral, but fortunately most of my time in command was before the culture we have today started to become as pervasive and intrusive as it has done. I personally do not ever recall being troubled by that sort of compliance.””" People who know me know that I would not leave it there. I said to him:"““You have said again ‘this culture that is there’… It is easy to say””." I then asked him whether he could find any concrete examples. He replied:"““I do not have any which I can give to the Committee, Chairman. I have to say what I have is hearsay but I am aware there are lawyers out there who are looking for business and I believe encourage the sort of litigious cases that we see.””" I am sorry, but I find it very irresponsible for a former chief of staff to put forward innuendo. He could not come up with any concrete examples that our armed forces are being ensnarled by legal restraint. I have heard that there are lawyers ambulance chasing for cases in Iraq. I will condemn them out of hand if there are such individuals, but please come forward with examples. Lord Boyce did not do himself any favours in not being able to come up with hard facts. He relied on innuendo and, by his own admission, on hearsay.