Armed Forces Bill

It is a great honour to follow the hon. Member for Newark (Patrick Mercer). I am sure that all hon. Members agree that he made a particularly fine contribution to the debate. I disagree with him on only one point. I know that he brings a particular expertise to the debate, but one does not have to have been a serving officer to understand how important the concept of desertion is for discipline in the armed forces and for making it clear to every serviceman exactly what they have signed up to. I also pay tribute to my hon. Friends the Members for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) and for Leyton and Wanstead (Harry Cohen), although I am about to disagree with them. Both put their arguments with eloquence, but my hon. Friend the Member for Leyton and Wanstead did not seem to understand that the concept of ““enemy”” is quite well-defined. Clause 367, on page 185, makes it clear that an enemy is"““all persons engaged in armed operations against any of Her Majesty’s forces or against any force co-operating with any of Her Majesty’s forces…all pirates; and…all armed mutineers, armed rebels and armed rioters””." That is clearer than in previous statutes so my hon. Friend may want to reconsider that part of his argument. I wholly disagree with amendment No. 8, which was proposed by my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington. Deletion of paragraph (c) of subsection (3) would have meant that during the occupation of Germany and Italy at the end of the second world war somebody could have deserted with impunity. My hon. Friend may respond that they would be covered by the provision in paragraph (a)"““actions or operations against an enemy””." In that case, what about people serving in Bosnia with UNFOR—the UN force? Over the last 10 years, our forces have operated under different operational commands at various times; none the less—certainly in the view of some people—they are in"““military occupation of a foreign country or territory””." I believe that they are doing important work, although in the near future we may want to reconsider the number of troops serving in the region, as normalisation steadily takes place in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and, in the fullness of time, in Kosovo. My hon. Friend’s amendment would wholly undermine many of our existing operations around the world and those in which we might choose to engage in future. If the Committee chose either to pass the amendment, which is unlikely given the contributions that have been made, or if a large number of Members were to support it in a Division, it would send a message to our armed forces not of ethical surety—as I am sure my hon. Friend intends—but of ethical chaos. I hope, therefore, that no Members will support it in the Division Lobby.