Commons Bill [Lords]

I am very much heartened by what the hon. Lady says, but I know of examples in my locality where the converse is true, and such agri-environment agreements go too far in lessening the number of sheep carried on the mountains—but that may be by the by. None the less, I hear what she says, and I am pleased that that is so. I am sure that people who are aware of the agri-environment scene will realise that there is a need to keep a proper balance. For example, I was recently on a farm on the Berwyn mountains near Bala, where I live, and one of the problems there is that because of under-grazing, young gorse shoots are not being disposed of as they should be. That, in turn, has an effect on grouse. Of course, the whole thing is an ecosystem, so we must be aware of the need to graze responsibly, not only to do the best for the land, but to achieve the best return on the animals and generally to serve the three balancing acts to which I referred earlier. To that extent, I certainly agree with the hon. Lady. I wish to refer briefly to management. We should find another name for the commons associations. That is a small point, but it might be an important one in avoiding confusion, and the Minister looks as though he is taking it on board. However, the point was made earlier, and I am sure that it can be discussed further in due course. There is good reason for doing so. Most commons already have graziers associations, and if it is the wish of those associations, they should be allowed and encouraged to take on the role of a commons association—people may call them what they will—with as few administrative obstacles as is humanly possible. Many relevant commons graziers associations wish there to be as few obstacles as possible so that a commons association can be responsible for more than one common, where it is proper for that to happen. That would be sensible in the circumstances. Many of us believe that it is paramount that the main function of such an association is to protect the interests of all those whose livelihoods are reliant on the common rights. In particular, the non-business interests of those who have rights such as access should not take precedence over the interests of those whose incomes derive directly from the use of rights on the common. It is therefore essential that the majority of members of each association are drawn from the relevant business interests on the relevant commons. For example, the Farmers Union of Wales has mentioned a majority of 75 per cent. We had quite a discussion earlier about the make-up of the associations. I do not know whether the document that I have in my hand, an example of a draft statutory instrument, has come to me surreptitiously. I hope that the Minister has seen it, otherwise it has come to me surreptitiously. [Interruption.] He is making me rather nervous. It is entitled ““The West Barsetshire Commons Association Establishment Order 2006””. Many Members have referred to this matter, so I hope that I am raising a point of information. Under the heading, ““Establishment of the Association””, in article 3(2), the order states:"““The Association shall consist of not less than 10 and not more than 12 members, of whom—"