Government of Wales Bill

We are not debating the merits or otherwise of a second Chamber. To be fair, the House of Lords has behaved with great care and responsibility towards Welsh legislation such as the Transport (Wales) Bill, the Commissioner for Older People (Wales) Bill and the various legislation that has gone through Parliament in recent years following bids from the Assembly. I would not expect it to treat Orders in Council in any way differently. Therefore, I do not think it right, in the middle of the debate about the Government of Wales Bill, to aim for a revolutionary change in the relationship between Lords and Commons. That would not be appropriate. I remind my hon. Friend the Member for Aberavon (Dr. Francis) that the Secretary of State will lay the Order in Council triggering the referendum. The referendum cannot appear suddenly, all on its own. It needs a Secretary of State to lay the Order in Council, and that would present an opportunity for proper questions about the consultation process. That is why we have made the order a requirement: it is not a delaying tactic, but will mean that proper answers must be given to proper questions. In any case, the Secretary of State will have to consult the Electoral Commission about the referendum question contained in the draft Order in Council. The commission’s report on that question’s intelligibility will have to be laid, together with any preceding statement, with that draft order, according to the procedure established by section 104 of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000. The hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs. Gillan) said that she wanted a procedure that would allow the Order in Council to be amended, by either House or by both. Her amendment is not explicit, but I presume that she would want the Assembly to have the same ability. That would be a recipe for endless ping pong. If the Assembly did not have the ability to amend an Order in Council, but was required by the legislation to pass it, we would get it into great difficulties. I hope that the hon. Lady will concede, on reflection, that the 2000 Act contains a procedure that requires the Electoral Commission to be the driving force, along with the Government, on the referendum question. The commission will also, of course, have to consult with the Assembly on that question. I hope that that answers the hon. Lady, and that she will withdraw the amendment.