Government of Wales Bill

Amendment No. 186, in my name and that of my hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd, South (Mr. Jones), would limit the role of the Secretary of State to laying a draft order for a referendum, which reflects the recommendation in the Welsh Affairs Committee’s report on the White Paper. As things stand, the Secretary of State could refuse to lay the draft order for a referendum even if the National Assembly had voted by a two-thirds majority in favour of holding the referendum. I believe that Parliament alone, not the Government of the day, should accept or reject a request for a referendum. I was impressed by what the Secretary of State said in response to earlier amendments about the importance of the sovereignty and primacy of Parliament—and that certainly applies to my amendment. His response to our recent report argued that removing his power of refusal would ““bypass”” the Government of the day, but that argument does not stand up. The Government of the day would be able to put forward their position in the debate on the order, and could control the timing of that debate. They would also hold a majority in the House of Commons, which would provide them with the numbers necessary to win a vote. Their views could not and would not be bypassed. Ministers also argue that the Government would be"““entitled to test and satisfy itself that the question should be put to the people of Wales””." I do not understand what form such an additional test would take. Would the Government hold focus groups or phone-ins, or an informal pre-referendum referendum? The necessary test for the referendum trigger is whether two thirds of the Members of the National Assembly for Wales are in favour of a referendum. As the Secretary of State said in another context, such a high threshold would necessitate cross-party support, and would therefore reflect the clear policy view of those parties—and also, surely, the view of those who voted for them. Once that test has been satisfied and a request has been made, it should be for Parliament to decide. The Secretary of State is right to say that a move to full legislative competency at the National Assembly would represent ““a significant constitutional development””, but that makes it more important that Parliament—the sovereign seat of the United Kingdom Government—rather than the Government of the day, should decide on the merits of the request. The Secretary of State knows as well as I do that the Government of the day will decide the fate of a request for a referendum—but the Government should have the confidence to make that decision in Parliament, not in Whitehall. For that reason, I ask hon. Members to support my amendment. I am sure that, as a democrat and a supporter of democrat devolution, the Secretary of State will respond positively and wisely to this sensible and modest request. I shall end by quoting the Secretary of State’s hero and mine, Aneurin Bevan, on these matters—and I notice that the right hon. Gentleman is listening carefully. Aneurin Bevan said:"““The purpose of getting power is to be able to give it away.””"