Government of Wales Bill

I have a particular view on referendums. I have some sympathy with the right hon. Member for Suffolk, Coastal (Mr. Gummer) on them. I do not really like them as a basic idea, but we are in the historical situation that, since Harold Wilson’s day, on constitutional issues we have devised the mechanisms of referendums. Sometimes we have done so for reasons of political expediency, but they have become part of the fabric. Interestingly enough, there were thresholds in the referendums that were held in the 1970s. Some say that referendums should not be provided for in the Bill. I say that it is important that the Bill contains a measure that institutionalises the fact that if we are to have primary powers, we will have to have a referendum. There are those who would not want to have one even at that stage. That was part of some of the discussion that surrounded the Richard commission and so on. There were people who wanted to proceed without such a mechanism. We have to go back to the people. Those who forget where the last referendums were would do well to go and revisit them. Let us be clear. Only half of the electorate turned out, and only half of those who did voted yes. So, in the words of Antonio Gramsci, we have to temper our enthusiasm with the pessimism of the intellect. We had better not run too far ahead of the people on these questions. Interestingly enough, I remember the report of the Welsh Affairs Committee, of which my hon. Friend the Member for Aberavon (Dr. Francis) is a member. It was a unanimous report. It was certainly no minority report.