Government of Wales Bill

I share the embarrassment of the hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs. Gillan) at finding that our minds work alike and that we both tabled the same amendment. I hope that her colleagues will not hold that against her. I remind my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State that, when he first came to the Dispatch Box to announce what he had in mind, I welcomed the referendum, and he welcomed the fact that I supported what he said at that time. A week ago, I welcomed the referendum because I thought that a referendum meant that the people of Wales would make a choice. I did not realise that it was to be an ongoing saga until the people of Wales made the right choice, the choice that the Secretary of State wants and the only choice and decision that he is willing to accept. I have become disenchanted, to put it mildly. I asked the Under-Secretary of State for Wales last week to confirm my reading of the Bill that we could get full devolution without a referendum just by the use of the order process. In fairness to him, he came back to me during the week and confirmed what I said: it would be slow but—this is the important point—inexorable. The people of Wales cannot escape that while Ministers who share the view of the Secretary of State are making the decisions. Full powers can be achieved by the order-making process alone. Yes, it is slow but virtually nothing can stop it while Ministers are so determined. The Bill is clear. That consequence has already been described. A majority of one and we jump right through to full devolution. A defeat by 100,000 or 250,000 and we will come back again and again and again. Ministers have not even been willing to put in the safeguard of a time limit. They go to the Select Committee and indicate the time that they think would pass before anything different could be introduced, but they are not willing to put any time limit in the Bill.