Government of Wales Bill

The hon. Gentleman cannot have read the White Paper. The main thrust behind the introduction of the part 3 powers is the delays and logjam that occur with the parliamentary process here. If the Assembly is to be totally dependent on primary legislation being passed here and then given framework powers for secondary legislation, it will have to wait a long time. It may be that there will be occasions when legislation will give the Assembly framework powers that it can convert into Assembly Measures, and I have quoted the Education Act 2005. However, the point of part 3 is to address the issue that was highlighted in the Richard report about the parliamentary legislative logjam that exists here. It prevents the Assembly from getting through the pieces of legislation that it wants. I think that I have dealt with virtually all the points raised by the hon. Member for Beaconsfield. Clearly, I have not convinced him, but I did not expect to do so. However, I shall now turn to some of the points about draft legislation and scrutiny that were raised by my right hon. and hon. Friends. I notice that the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Lembit Öpik) is no longer in his place.My right hon. Friend the Member for Torfaen (Mr. Murphy) touched on the importance of pre-legislative scrutiny in this process. The problem that we face is that the Bill cannot fetter the procedures of the House. We cannot dictate to the House the procedures for pre-legislative scrutiny. I agree with everything that my right hon. Friend and my hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas) said about the importance of pre-legislative scrutiny. The Welsh Affairs Select Committee has done an excellent job in considering pieces of primary legislation and has changed them. It is important for all Members to understand the process that will be involved. We envisage that, with the agreement of the House and the Select Committee, a preliminary draft order will be produced by the Assembly after it has been through whatever processes it wants to go through, and that may include considering a report produced by one of its Committees. The Secretary of State would then ask the House and, in particular, the Select Committee to scrutinise that draft legislation or Order-in-Council. I hope that my right hon. Friend has seen the two documents that I have made available to the House, the first of which was a draft document relating to the Bill for a public services ombudsman. Instead of being a piece of primary legislation, the document shows how it would have followed the Order in Council and Welsh Assembly Measure system. The second relates to the Transport (Wales) Bill, which is completing its stages through the House. That would also have gone through the Order in Council process. Both documents clearly show the opportunities that exist for pre-legislative scrutiny.