Government of Wales Bill

That is what I thought as well, when I heard the argument. It would set a dangerous precedent to take account of the hours and who does what, and to create two-tier or two-status Welsh Assembly Members. If that happened in the Welsh Assembly, somebody might suggest examining what MPs are doing at Westminster and whether some have lesser jobs because of devolution. Somebody somewhere might devise a system for taking that into account. Finally, I shall say something about the Orders in Council, the referendum and giving the people of Wales a voice. That is why the Welsh Assembly was created, and Members have reminded us how close it came to not going ahead. However, there was a thin majority. I was on the Assembly referendum night programme and I remember that it came down to the final result. Peter Snow predicted that the people of Wales had voted no, but then the Carmarthen result came in and it was 11:11—very tight indeed. The settlement is where we currently are, and to use a device proposed in the Bill to salami-slice legislative powers in favour of the Assembly in everything but name is dishonest. If that is what the Government want, and the Secretary of State said that he wanted the Welsh Assembly to have primary legislative powers, let us be adult and honest about it. Let us devise a question for the people of Wales and put it to them. If the Government are not prepared to do that in respect of primary legislative powers and still want to use the device of Orders in Council, let us at least put to the people of Wales the salami-slicing mechanism that would be used, and find out what they want. To do it dishonestly, without asking the people of Wales whether that is what they want, is not right. Contrary to what the hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Mr. Williams) said, had we gone down that route in the first place and offered the people of Wales the same powers as the Scottish Parliament has, I believe the people of Wales would have voted no, particularly as regards the tax-varying powers. That is why the Government offered something less. It is wrong to give the people of Wales what the Government are offering, without giving them a voice. I thought we all believed in democracy. If we do, let us back it with our votes.