Armed Forces Bill

I agree totally with my hon. Friend, and we did indeed take evidence from those who were no longer trainees, and from the relatives of those who had died and had got past initial training. Although the scope of our inquiry related to the duty of care of trainees, it was evident from the way in which it developed that we also had to examine other areas, and doing so proved invaluable to the final report. We also took evidence from the Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, my right hon. Friend the Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Mr. Ingram); from Colonel David Eccles, chief of staff; and from Martin Fuller, director of service personnel policy, service conditions at the Ministry of Defence. It was a long inquiry—it took more than a year—and we visited some 15 different training establishments and took evidence from a variety of individuals in all three services. The inquiry’s recommendations were clear, one of which—the establishment of an independent military complaints commission—is very important and central to this debate. It was worked on in some detail by my hon. Friend the Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Mr. Roy). He was a member of the Defence Committee at the time but is now in the purdah of the Whips Office, so he cannot take part in this debate. He was keen on this recommendation because a number of his constituents had died while serving in the armed forces, and their families, along with others, led a campaign to highlight the problem of bullying and harassment in the armed forces. We envisage a commission that would have the authority not only to investigate complaints but to make recommendations that would be binding on the armed forces. It would be for the commission to decide whether to undertake an investigation, but it would take into account only serious allegations. Importantly, its findings and structure would be independent of the MOD and the chain of command. However, we are not suggesting that it should in any way be a substitute for the chain of command. I should stress, as other Members have stressed, that it should be seen as an independent body that people can approach to ensure that serious grievances are dealt with. I came to the view that establishing an independent commission is important because our armed forces, particularly the Army, have suffered terribly in the past few years as a result not just of the Deepcut allegations, but of other deaths in military service. A truly independent scrutinising mechanism would certainly bolster the public’s confidence in the armed forces. Not everyone who came before our Select Committee was in favour of such a commission. General Palmer said:"““I think that that is a step too far because there is a chain of command. The Armed Forces are a unique set of people—there is no doubt or question about that. They are asked to do things that no one else is asked to do. That respect of the chain of command is vital.””" I agree, but the Defence Committee’s proposal would in no way cut across the chain of command. The MOD and the military are by their nature very conservative with a small ““c””—in some cases, with a big one—but having such an independent commission could do no harm. Without one, there will be serious question marks over isolated but horrific cases such as those that have led to bullying and, sadly, to young recruits taking their own lives. We have heard about many such cases in the media in the past few years. As my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool, North and Fleetwood (Mrs. Humble) pointed out in an intervention, some people have got through initial training, only to take their own lives because of the way in which they were treated in the armed forces. I accept that people are criticising me and others for this introducing this proposal, but I should point to the example of the UK police force, which, until 2002, was criticised for investigating itself. Since then, Independent Police Complaints Commission has been created. Importantly, it reports to Parliament, so it is publicly accountable. It is not linked to any Government Department, so its decisions cannot be overruled by politicians; they can be overruled only by a court of law. Initial reactions to the IPCC’s creation were that it would impact on operational effectiveness and impose an additional bureaucratic burden, and that busy-bodies who knew nothing about day-to-day policing would be telling chief constables what to do. Throughout our inquiry, similar arguments were advanced against having an independent commission in the armed forces. By way of contrast, the senior police officers to whom we spoke during our inquiry expressed the view that the IPCC has benefited the police’s working practices and led to greater transparency. The most important thing that the IPCC has done is to bolster the public’s confidence that the police are not a law unto themselves, and that if complaints are made by individual members of the public, they will be investigated thoroughly and—crucially—independently. The Government’s response to our report—my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Sutton mentioned it earlier—said the following about the creation of an independent commission:"““We accept that there is a case for introducing an independent element to the complaints system: there are different models for this, in this country and abroad, and their implications need detailed examination. We will carry out this work ahead of the introduction of the Armed Forces Bill planned for later this year.””" I was a little disappointed to discover what the Bill says about the establishment of a service complaints panel. The panel would consider a service complaint—although, as has already been said, nobody knows what the definition of a service complaint would be. I am also disappointed that the independence of the body is still a little sketchy. As I understand it, the panel would be set up by the Defence Council, which would appoint the panel members, but in exceptional circumstances the Secretary of State could appoint an independent panel member.