Commons Bill [HL]

It might be for the convenience of the Committee if I spoke to Amendments Nos. 64 and 68 in my name and in the same group as the amendments proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Livsey. We are dealing here with deregistration, which is a very important subject not least because with regard to nature conservation and the preservation of the landscape, one interesting thing about the foot and mouth outbreak in mid-Wales was that when sheep could no longer be moved about, on the common land near me we had wild flowers in abundance and birds all over the place. When the sheep came back in after the foot and mouth outbreak all the wild flowers and birds went again. I am afraid that that is a function of sheep farming on a common. But I shall come to the question of nature conservation later. My particular point on Amendment No. 64 again concerns the interests of the neighbourhood. Since we do not know what the neighbourhood is, it is rather difficult to say what the interests of the neighbourhood might be and how they should be tested on deregistration. In addition, under paragraph (d), which adds,"““any other matter considered to be relevant””," can my noble friend at least give us some indication of what other matters might be relevant and how we can challenge them if they are raised by a national authority? Can I bowl my noble friend rather a fast ball? I have not raised this matter up to now, but could he tell me—not necessarily today but I shall put it on the record—over the course of time how far the National Assembly for Wales will be bound by ministerial statements made in this House on this legislation? As I say, I do not seek an immediate response, but I should like that put on the record because the appropriate national authority in the case of Wales is going to be the National Assembly. My noble friend can give all sorts of assurances, but it is perfectly possible, as I understand it, that the National Assembly may take a different view. Given Pepper v Hart, and since my noble friend is a lawyer and understands ministerial clarification in this Parliament, I should be grateful for his view on how far that would bind the National Assembly for Wales. Having bowled that fast ball, let me bowl a rather slower one. These are all probing amendments and we are not trying to force any issue. Regarding Amendment No. 68, will my noble friend indicate which of the following matters,"““nature conservation . . . the conservation of landscape . . . the protection of public rights of access to any area of land””," take priority? Will they all be equal? If the public, for example, tramples over the land and does not protect nature, which of those takes priority? I do not wish to go on too much, but those are serious concerns that I am sure my noble friend will wish to address.