Terrorism Bill

I absolutely believe that we have learnt the lessons. Of course we must have safeguards in our legislation, but we must also have legislation that gives us the necessary powers to disrupt terrorism, to prosecute more terrorists, and to bring terrorists to justice within a proper legal system and according to the rule of law. The Bill contains much that is good, but inevitably today’s debate has focused on the clause 1 offence of encouragement to commit terrorism and the extension of the maximum period of detention in clause 23. I emphasise ““maximum period of detention””. I shall respond to as many points as possible, but I shall not be able to deal with all of them. We shall have a good opportunity to debate them in Committee. The right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden (David Davis) said that we should scrutinise the Bill and that there should be challenges, scepticism and questioning. That is what the House is good at, and I think that we will end up with legislation that is practical and effective. My right hon. Friend the Member for Torfaen (Mr. Murphy)—I pay tribute to his extensive experience in Northern Ireland—said that the events of 7 July were unprecedented in our country. Like many other Members, he recognises that the terrorist threat that we face now is significantly different from the Irish threat in many ways. I agreed with his sensible and practical observations. I was grateful to the hon. Member for Winchester (Mr. Oaten) for his acknowledgment of the way in which we have approached the issue. We are trying to secure consensus. I am disappointed that the hon. Gentleman and his party are to vote against Second Reading, because I genuinely do not believe that that is the right approach. If the hon. Gentleman is worried about clause 1 and the extension of the period of detention, he can debate those matters in Committee. The Bill contains a range of measures that will protect the people of this country. The hon. Member for Winchester said that in his view, there are alternatives to the 90-day limit that will work. We will explore them in Committee, but I point out to him now that the idea of charging suspects with a lesser offence has some serious faults. First, it is dishonest. Charging somebody with a minor offence simply as a ruse to keep them in custody is not the right thing to do. Secondly, it might not work. In order to get the evidence for the lesser offence, it might be necessary to decrypt a computer, which would take longer than the period in question in any event. Such an approach could also be inefficient and divert police resources toward dealing with minor offences, when they should be concentrating on the major offences in question. Indeed, such an approach could prove dangerous. Someone could be let out on bail because they were charged with a lesser offence, and then commit further offences. However, we will explore all those issues in Committee. My hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Central (Tony Lloyd) raised issues relating to the offence of glorifying and encouraging of terrorism. I point out to all Members that if we seek to make a distinction between good terrorism and bad terrorism, we will get into very dangerous territory. Terrorism is wrong. We should not encourage people to kill, murder and maim others, even in the interest of political change. That will prove a really important dividing line as we continue our discussions.