My Lords, I too acknowledge the work done by the Minister on IPP and the significant movement that there has been through the government amendments.
It is right that IPP sentences were abolished. We share the concerns that lie behind many of these amendments. We have always sought to work constructively on a cross-party basis on this issue, which is why we are supporting the government amendments to bring forward a statutory action plan. Our default position will always be, where possible, to secure the safe release of IPP prisoners. However, public safety must be at the centre of our approach. It is not possible to make assessments of public safety responsibly and confidently from the opposition position without the necessary evidence on the individual needs of these offenders. In government, the Labour Party will work at pace to make progress and will consult widely to ensure that the action plan is effective and based on the evidence available.
Government Amendment 139C, the annual report amendment, is a government concession to Amendments 141 and 142 tabled by my noble friend Lord Blunkett. It places an obligation upon the Government to report annually on the progress and rehabilitation of IPP and DPP prisoners through the enhanced work of the progression board and to outline those whom they have consulted in supporting such progress. There is clear intent of prisoner release and support and progress on licence while being monitored and advised by the scrutiny panel—currently known as the external challenge group. The Minister mentioned the members of this group. Nobody could doubt their credibility.
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There will be no disagreement across the House that IPP sentences have become a stain on our criminal justice system and must be rectified. The evidence of
their detrimental impact has been detailed throughout the Bill and in this debate, as well as through the tireless work of colleagues across two Houses. Our priority is, and must be, public safety, a point that was made in opening by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Garnier. While reforms to IPPs are necessary, we must ensure that any actions taken are measured and safe. The creation of a scrutiny panel of experts will allow for the essential transparency and informed decision-making to ensure that any steps taken to progress a solution for those on IPP sentences is robust. I noted the point made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, about the purpose of the action plan as stated within the plan itself.
I turn to my noble friend Lord Blunkett’s Amendments 138A and 143, and the Government’s response to them: Amendment 138ZB. One of the most significantly impacted groups is those who were sentenced indeterminately as children. It is understood that children can learn and be rehabilitated at a significantly quicker pace than adults. Yet one of the many concerns with these sentences is that they did not appear to take this into account when the children were sentenced. As a result, we have 49 prisoners serving a DPP sentence in custody having been sentenced as children and subsequently recalled.
It is clear that IPP sentences require resolution. However, we believe that any solution must provide clear delineation for those sentenced as children and the situation should be assessed within that context. There is a need for those on DPPs to be considered within their unique context. A wider plan on IPPs cannot be expected to understand the nuances of those sentenced as children and the impact that their time in custody may have had on their development. In the meantime, reducing the qualifying period for licence determination is a decisive move in the right direction, so we will be supporting the Government’s Amendment 138ZB and will abstain if my noble friend presses his amendments.
I move on to Amendment 149A, tabled by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas, and Amendment 145, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Moylan. Amendment 149A states explicitly that the release test should be proportionate to the nature of the original offence under IPP. It covers the same parameters as the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, wanting to alter the release test to make it easier for those who have served their time to be released when safe. It is applicable to those who have served in excess of the maximum determinate sentence provided by law for the offence or offences of which they were convicted, or 10 years or more beyond the minimum term of their sentence. We have said that in government we will work at pace to bring forward an effective action plan that will allow the safe release of IPP prisoners where possible. It is not possible to make assessments of public safety responsibly and confidently from opposition without the necessary evidence on the individual needs of these offenders.
We have concerns about any potential changes to the release test, and the Parole Board’s ability to prioritise public safety. For that reason, we are supporting the Government’s action plan rather than any changes to the release test at this time. Therefore, we would abstain if the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas, were to move his amendment.
My noble friend Lord Blunkett, in his generous speech, expressed understanding for the Labour Party’s position. He spoke of the recall of prisoners breaching their licence conditions, and the difference between that for determinate sentences and for indeterminate sentences. I like Amendment 148, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Carter, which would make the licence conditions between indeterminate and determinate sentences equivalent. I will say something, however, about my experience as a magistrate who sat on breach courts many times. Many of the briefings I received said that the breaches were somehow inconsequential or not serious. In my experience, offenders often do not realise the seriousness of their breaches. It is not uncommon for them to give an example of their breach that they believe to be trivial, only for the court, and the potential victim, to take a different view. Licence conditions are there for a reason, and it needs to be reinforced that the reason is public protection.
I turn to Amendment 147, tabled by my noble friend Lady Blower, and Amendment 140, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Burt. Amendment 140 would introduce an additional aftercare duty in respect of people on IPP who have never been released and are three or more years beyond the expiration of their tariff, and who have not yet had their licence terminated. My noble friend’s Amendment 147 would enable the Secretary of State to appoint mentors to assist over-tariff IPP prisoners. They would provide practical support in formulating a release plan, support them at the Parole Board hearing and signpost relevant services, including mental health services, to enable them to get out of jail and stay out.
We support the intention behind both these amendments. We recognise that enhanced mental health support for these prisoners is likely to be needed once they are released, both for the protection of the community and to stop them breaching their licence conditions or re-offending. We do not, however, know the whole picture regarding the numbers concerned or the extent of the additional support required. While I am happy to express general support for these amendments, we would not support them if they were moved to a vote. I was intrigued to hear what the noble Baroness, Lady Burt, said about anticipating further concessions from the Minister at the Dispatch Box.
This group of amendments has been hotly anticipated by the many people who will be watching this debate, and by the IPP prisoners themselves and their wider families. Although substantial and welcome progress has been made through the Government’s amendments, the step-by-step approach in this and previous Bills has led to changes and to some reduction in the number of IPP prisoners, and that must be done on a sustainable basis. The point is that if we were to press ahead too quickly and prisoners were released and serious offences were committed, that would thoroughly undermine the position of the IPP prisoners who were left behind. This therefore needs to be done in a slow, systematic and sustainable way that will be to the benefit of the existing IPP prisoners.