My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in this debate. Needless to say, too many further questions arise out of all this, and there are too many points for me to be able to address anything other than the odd one—other than by making a very long speech and incurring the wrath of the Government Whip for the second time in the week.
I preface my further remarks by saying a word about Lord Stunell. His death is a great loss to all of us. He was forensically well-informed and always delivered his contributions with care, tact and supreme authority. I had the great honour of serving with him on the Built Environment Committee and, of course, I was with him throughout the Fire Safety Bill and the Building Safety Bill, as well as the levelling up Bill. He will leave a very great hole in our deliberations.
There is a fundamental common purpose between what the noble Lord, Lord Young, and I are trying to achieve. I simply say that I look forward to working with him to see whether we can find a common way forward—and indeed with other noble Lords, such as the noble Baronesses, Lady Thornhill and Lady Taylor, and the Minister, because there is a consensus that something needs to be done.
The right reverend Prelate and all the Bishops have been fantastic in their support on this—right the way through the passage of the now Building Safety Act and Levelling-up and Regeneration Act, and again on this Bill—in order to get justice for innocent leaseholders.
The noble Baroness, Lady Thornhill, referred to the wider liability and systemic failures. I get that, which is why I keep referring to the wider construction industry. There are lots of people involved there and they all have some responsibility.
The noble Lord, Lord Empey, referred to building control. This takes us back to the Building Act 1984 measures, which allowed for approved inspectors—as privatised entities—effectively to take over the role of local authority building control. The local authority then lost control of the process at that stage. The construction sector gamed the system. Indeed, I know at least one large body that had its own wholly owned subsidiary as its approved inspector. Where is the objectivity there?
The noble Lord, Lord Rooker, was absolutely right on the question of electrical safety, which is a subset of the fire safety issue.
The noble Baroness, Lady Taylor of Stevenage, has always been a fantastic supporter of what I am trying to do; I say to her and to all noble Lords that I am not set on the particular solution that I have put forward, but I am dead set on wanting something that protects consumers and protects leaseholders in their own home—this is the recurring theme. The chickens are going to come home to roost: the bottom line is that this will always end up with leaseholders by default picking up the pieces; they are the most vulnerable. The problems do not go away; whether you kick the political can down the road or whether you do not, it just leads to more grief.
I will not go through the comments of the Minister, but I thank her for them and will look at them with very great care. I am sorry that the argument still seems to be that, because this matter was raised in the passage of the then Building Safety Bill and levelling up Bill, it somehow should not be discussed any more. The point is that the problem has not gone away. The Minister may not want to listen to me—certainly not for much longer this afternoon—but she needs to listen carefully to what leaseholders are saying about their experiences. We in Parliament may start turning a tin ear to what is happening out there, but it is evident in the media and in emails to me and other noble Lords, and it cannot be ignored or avoided any longer. The mercury in this respect is going up the tube quite fast, and this will become more and more of an issue.
If my proposals are destined to slow down the process, all I can say is that, politically, I suspect that this is going to start speeding up very rapidly. The Government may say that they will take further action if the players do not perform, but this is another bit of finger-wagging. We know that something needs to be done and that it needs to be done now.
I end by saying that I will consult with other noble Lords about how we can take this forward. I certainly may return to this matter on Report. None of us wants to delay this Bill but, unamended, the agony for lease- holders will go on and on. On that note, I beg leave to withdraw Amendment 93B.