UK Parliament / Open data

Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Bill

Debate on bills on Wednesday, 6 March 2024, in the House of Lords, led by Lord Sharpe of Epsom and Lord Stewart of Dirleton. The answering members were Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede and Lord Coaker.
Lords report stage second day. Amendment 33 agreed to on division (278 to 189). Amendment 34 agreed to on division (265 to 181). Amendment 41 agreed to on division (228 to 184). Amendment 42 agreed to on division (246 to 171). Amendment 44 agreed to on division (244 to 160). Bill, as amended, ordered to be printed (HL Bill 51).
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
836 cc1563-1638 
Session
2023-24
Legislative stage
Report stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Bill 2023-24. Brought from the Commons
Thursday, 18 January 2024
Bills
House of Lords
Legislative scrutiny: Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Bill. Joint Committee on Human Rights second report
Wednesday, 7 February 2024
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
House of Commons
Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Bill. Constitution Committee third report
Friday, 9 February 2024
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Bill 2023-24. As amended on Report
Wednesday, 6 March 2024
Bills
House of Lords

Show all related items (7)
Deposited Paper DEP2024-0297
Tuesday, 12 March 2024
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2024-0309
Monday, 11 March 2024
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2024-0311
Tuesday, 12 March 2024
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Chakrabarti | 836 cc1563-4 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Chakrabarti

33: Leave out Clause 4 and insert the following new Cla...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 836 c1564 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, on Monday overwhelming majorities of your Lordships voted to amend this Bill by adding ...


Show all contributions (148)
Viscount Hailsham | 836 cc1564-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, perhaps within two minutes I will complete my observations to support the amendment mov...

Lord Inglewood | 836 c1565 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I would like to ask the Minister one question in the context of the provisions in Claus...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 836 cc1565-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak only once today, as I did on Monday. The Greens will vote for all the amen...

Lord Cashman | 836 c1566 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support this amendment because it encapsulates the principle introduced by the noble ...

Lord German | 836 c1566 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we on these Benches agree that decision-makers and our domestic courts and tribunals ar...

Lord Lilley | 836 cc1566-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, can I begin by setting the record straight? On Monday, I implied that no noble Lord had...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 836 c1567 (Link to this contribution)

I rise in response to a point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Cashman, who referred to an article ...

Baroness Kennedy of the Shaws | 836 c1567 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I was not on the visit to Rwanda with the committee, but I looked at all the notes that...

Lord Cashman | 836 c1568 (Link to this contribution)

For the record, the Foreign Office travel advice for Rwanda was:

“LGBT individuals can expe...

Baroness Lawrence of Clarendon | 836 c1568 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I, too, went to Rwanda with the noble Lord and, yes, the constitution talks about LGBT ...

Baroness Meyer | 836 c1568 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am the last person to speak who was also in Rwanda last week and attended the same me...

Lord Anderson of Ipswich | 836 c1568 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, do these exchanges not suggest that many of us are liable to hear what we hope we will ...

Lord Coaker | 836 cc1568-9 (Link to this contribution)

I hesitate to stand up, looking around. We very much support Amendment 33 from the noble Baroness...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 836 cc1569-1571 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this was a brisk debate that touched on a number of very important points. The noble Ba...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 836 c1571 (Link to this contribution)

Have the procedures required under Article 10.3 of the treaty to ensure that refoulement does not...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 836 c1571 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the Israeli case to which the noble Lord, Lord Kerr of Kinlochard, referred was—I make ...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 836 c1571 (Link to this contribution)

If the treaty has to be agreed and the Government have to be satisfied, how can they expect us to...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 836 cc1571-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I think, with respect to the noble and learned Baroness, that that point has been canva...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 836 cc1572-3 (Link to this contribution)

As always, I am grateful to all noble Lords, particularly those who spoke briefly. I am grateful ...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 836 c1573 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Lister of Burtersett

34: After Clause 4, insert the following new C...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 836 cc1577-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to move Amendment 34, in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Dubs and with ...

Lord Dubs | 836 c1578 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I would like to endorse the arguments used by my noble friend Lady Lister and to fully ...

Bishop of Chelmsford | 836 cc1578-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise also to support Amendment 34. I will keep my comments brief because I fully supp...

Baroness Neuberger | 836 c1579 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise very briefly to support the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Li...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 836 c1579 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I also support Amendment 34. Several years ago, I was invited by the charity Safe Passa...

Baroness Brinton | 836 c1580 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I tabled Amendment 35 in this group, which is broadly similar to Amendment 34 in that i...

Baroness Lawlor | 836 cc1580-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I oppose this group of amendments on two grounds. I too want to promote the best intere...

Lord Lilley | 836 c1581 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness, Lady Lawlor, makes an important point that provokes in me a question. I under...

Bishop of Chelmsford | 836 c1581 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will rise just to answer the question that was put to me. First, I do not speak on be...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 836 c1581 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Lawlor, said that the Government were making tough decisions b...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 836 cc1582-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords for their contributions to this debate. Amendment 34, ...

Baroness Brinton | 836 c1584 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister failed to quote the next part of the letter, which I started to quote, about the com...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 836 c1584 (Link to this contribution)

And the point I was making is that this is done in combination with a variety of other methods an...

Lord Scriven | 836 c1584 (Link to this contribution)

I have an important question. The Merton assessment is the standard assessment that is done of an...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 836 c1585 (Link to this contribution)

As I have tried to explain, the initial assessment is made by two Home Office officers; the Merto...

Lord Scriven | 836 c1585 (Link to this contribution)

May I therefore ask another question? What professionals are in Rwanda who can carry out that Mer...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 836 c1585 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have discussed on numerous occasions the question of a number of vulnerable individu...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 836 c1585 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank noble Lords who have spoken in support of my amendment. To pick up what the nob...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 836 c1585 (Link to this contribution)

My apologies: I meant to say that, yes, of course I am happy to meet.

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 836 cc1585-6 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister very much, but there is no child rights impact assessment, needless to say.<...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 836 c1586 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Hope of Craighead

36: Clause 5, page 5, line 15, leave out “Accordingly...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 836 cc1586-1590 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there are three amendments in this group, and they are all directed to the provisions o...

Lord Lilley | 836 c1590 (Link to this contribution)

Will the noble and learned Lord comment on the decision of the French Government to ignore Rule 3...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 836 c1590 (Link to this contribution)

I was trying to explain that I am not getting engaged in that kind of debate. We have discussed t...

Lord Lilley | 836 c1590 (Link to this contribution)

But your position is that this is now settled and that member states all agree, when they patentl...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 836 cc1590-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am not going to respond. As I say, this is Report, and I am adopting a very particula...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 836 c1591 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak very briefly in support of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, and the ...

Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 836 cc1591-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I oppose Amendments 36, 37, and 38 in respect of Rule 39 interim measures. I am afraid ...

Baroness Brinton | 836 c1593 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord said earlier that he wants to speak at length because he feels the issue is import...

Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 836 c1593 (Link to this contribution)

I am interested that the noble Baroness for the Liberal Democrats is so keen to avoid debate but,...

Baroness Meacher | 836 c1593 (Link to this contribution)

We do not make Second Reading speeches on Report.

Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 836 c1593 (Link to this contribution)

I take on board the noble Baroness’s view, but I am not making a Second Reading speech. I am spea...

Lord Gascoigne | 836 c1593 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there is a long day ahead and there have been many deliberations on all these subjects ...

Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 836 c1593 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Whip for that guidance. If I can proceed to conclude my remarks—

Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 836 cc1593-4 (Link to this contribution)

However much the noble Baroness heckles from a sedentary position, I will not sit down and I will...

Lord Alton of Liverpool | 836 c1594 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will be brief. I follow my noble and learned friend Lord Hope of Craighead and the no...

Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 836 c1594 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord has a proud and long-standing record of defending human and civil rights, which we...

Lord Alton of Liverpool | 836 c1595 (Link to this contribution)

I disagree with the noble Lord; the amendments are about interim measures. The Joint Select Commi...

Lord Faulks | 836 cc1595-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I promise I will be brief. First, there appears to be agreement that there was not tota...

Lord Anderson of Ipswich | 836 cc1596-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support all the amendments in this group and will be sorry if, as I suspect may be th...

Lord Deben | 836 c1597 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as the House will know, I tend not to want lawyers to have it all their own way when th...

Lord German | 836 c1597 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, on that last remark, I absolutely agree with the noble Lord, Lord Deben. That is why, o...

Lord Howard of Lympne | 836 c1598 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope—this is not the time to go back over the argum...

Lord German | 836 c1598 (Link to this contribution)

I deal with matters which are within my lifespan, I am afraid. It is certainly the case that the ...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 836 c1598 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak briefly to perhaps the least contentious amendment in this group, Amendmen...

Lord Deben | 836 c1599 (Link to this contribution)

I point out that the noble Lord did not quote me correctly. I did not say that he should kill the...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 836 c1599 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as I said, Amendment 37 puts the ball in the court of the Attorney-General; it is for h...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 836 cc1599-1600 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am again grateful to all noble Lords who have participated in this debate, opened by ...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 836 c1600 (Link to this contribution)

Oh, she is. Well, while she did not press the point again, there was none the less a Green-wedge ...

Lord Alton of Liverpool | 836 c1600 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, before the Minister leaves that point about carrier pigeons, can he say when the respon...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 836 c1601 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the answer to the noble Lord’s question is “imminently”.

Returning to the corresp...

Lord Anderson of Ipswich | 836 c1601 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the Minister. I recall that, of the Grand Chamber in Mamatkulov, 13 of the ...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 836 c1601 (Link to this contribution)

It would be in circumstances where compliance is not possible.

Turning to Amendment 37 in t...

Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 836 c1601 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the text that the Minister read out placed a great deal of importance on the phrase “do...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 836 c1601 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I now turn to Amendment 37 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Coaker.

Lord Anderson of Ipswich | 836 c1601 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I do not wish to prolong things, but so we can be completely clear, is the Minister acc...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 836 c1602 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as I said, the Bill is in line with international law. It is not correct that a failure...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 836 c1602 (Link to this contribution)

Can we then take it from what the Minister has said that, if the Government, after taking appropr...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 836 cc1602-3 (Link to this contribution)

The point is that Rule 39 interim measures are not final judgments of the European Court of Human...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 836 c1603 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am very grateful to noble Lords from all sides of the House, whatever their views may...

Lord Anderson of Ipswich | 836 c1603 (Link to this contribution)

Does the noble and learned Lord take comfort, as I do, and perhaps some people watching these pro...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 836 c1604 (Link to this contribution)

That is a perfectly fair point to make; there are other amendments we have passed that carry us a...

Lord Coaker | 836 c1604 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Coaker

40: After Clause 5, insert the following new Clause—

“Numb...

Lord Coaker | 836 cc1604-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I feel a bit of an impostor with this set of amendments, because I think your Lordships...

Lord Alton of Liverpool | 836 c1605 (Link to this contribution)

Before the noble Lord leaves that point, will he also underline, yet again, the importance, withi...

Lord Coaker | 836 c1605 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord, Lord Alton, makes the point for himself, and I absolutely support what he has jus...

Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 836 cc1605-6 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord is of course quite right that if there is a conflict between the two Houses of Par...

Lord Coaker | 836 cc1606-7 (Link to this contribution)

We have said quite clearly all along that we will not block the Bill. I accept the point made by ...

Lord Coaker | 836 cc1607-8 (Link to this contribution)

I feel like just moving Amendments 40 and 41 and sitting down. I probably should.

These ame...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 836 c1608 (Link to this contribution)

Before the noble Lord sits down—and I hesitate to interrupt what has been a wonderfully entertain...

Lord Coaker | 836 c1608 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, for reminding me that I have a copy of that National Audit ...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 836 cc1608-9 (Link to this contribution)

I too enjoyed the vintage, bravura performance from the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, but let me move ...

Lord German | 836 cc1609-1610 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, if there is no other willing speaker, I say to the House that, set alongside breaching ...

Lord Deben | 836 c1610 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, in his comments. The issues we should be concer...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 836 cc1610-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, for introducing these amendments in such fine styl...

Lord Coaker | 836 c1611 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I do not feel the need to press Amendment 40, but I will test the opinion of the House ...

Lord Coaker | 836 c1611 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Coaker

41: After Clause 5, insert the following new Clause—

“Remo...

Lord Coaker | 836 c1611 (Link to this contribution)

I wish to test the opinion of the House.

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 836 c1611 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Butler-Sloss

42: After Clause 5, insert the following new Clause—

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 836 c1611 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I spoke to this amendment on Monday. I should like to test the opinion of the House.

Lord Browne of Ladyton | 836 c1611 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Browne of Ladyton

44: After Clause 5, insert the following new Clause—<...

Lord Browne of Ladyton | 836 c1611 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I wish to test the opinion of the House. In the interests of being concise, I draw on t...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 836 c1611 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Dodds of Duncairn

44ZA: Clause 8, page 6, line 24, at end insert—

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 836 cc1623-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment seeks to put beyond doubt what the Government claim to be the case—so th...

Lord Dubs | 836 cc1624-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 44A, which is on a different point from the one the noble Lor...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 836 cc1625-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will say a couple of things about Northern Ireland, following the noble Lord, Lord Do...

Lord Anderson of Ipswich | 836 c1626 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I echo the importance of the issue that the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, has raised in his A...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 836 cc1626-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I echo what my noble friend Lady Lister and the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, have said, i...

Lord German | 836 c1627 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will add some comments about the Jersey situation and the Channel Islands in general ...

Baroness Lawlor | 836 cc1627-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I would like to echo the request to my noble and learned friend for greater transparenc...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 836 c1628 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, has once again asked the Government to explain the apparent...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 836 cc1628-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords for their contributions to this debate. I will respond...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 836 c1629 (Link to this contribution)

Can the noble and learned Lord indicate what the Government’s position is if the judgment stands—...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 836 c1629 (Link to this contribution)

In that event, as with any adverse decision, I think, the Government would have to reserve their ...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 836 c1629 (Link to this contribution)

Before that, I know that I am not learned, but I did say some things and I have been ignored. Wha...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 836 c1630 (Link to this contribution)

Before the noble and learned Lord replies, can he also respond in relation to the Constitution Co...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 836 c1630 (Link to this contribution)

I first beg the noble Baroness’s pardon; I had not intended to overlook her. In relation to the a...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 836 c1630 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry, but that really is not good enough. We are practically at the end of Report. This was...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 836 c1630 (Link to this contribution)

I beg the noble Baroness’s pardon. I think that we had indicated that we were trying to get it by...

Lord German | 836 c1630 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for the reply—which was that “We were in such a hurry that we didn’t have ti...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 836 c1631 (Link to this contribution)

I regret to say that I am not privy to that information directly. I hear the point that the noble...

Lord Dubs | 836 c1631 (Link to this contribution)

I am afraid that we are still left with a very unclear position as regards Jersey, and possibly a...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 836 c1631 (Link to this contribution)

I shall make sure that the noble Lord’s point is given consideration before Third Reading.

...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 836 c1631 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for his response to the debate and to everyone who has ta...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 836 c1631 (Link to this contribution)

I must inform the House that if Amendment 45 is agreed, I will be unable to call Amendment 46 due...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 836 cc1631-2 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Chakrabarti

45: Clause 9, page 6, line 38, leave out subsection (1)...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 836 c1632 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there is always an alpha and an omega, and here we are. Earlier, the Minister said that...

Viscount Hailsham | 836 c1632 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will make just a one-minute contribution to this debate on Amendment 45. This is the ...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 836 cc1632-3 (Link to this contribution)

I am very interested in this amendment. It gets rid of the current commencement provision, Clause...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 836 c1633 (Link to this contribution)

If it will assist the noble and learned Lord, the Chamber of Deputies of the Rwandan Parliament h...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 836 c1633 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Murray of Blidworth, for telling me that. Perhaps the ...

Lord Scriven | 836 cc1633-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 46 in my name. It has become clear, as we get towards the en...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 836 c1635 (Link to this contribution)

Article 16(5) of the treaty confirms that any alteration to the terms of reference of the monitor...

Lord Scriven | 836 c1635 (Link to this contribution)

The very fact that extra terms of reference can be given by the co-chairs of the joint committee ...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 836 c1635 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 45 touches on an issue on which we have already voted on Report; namely, Amen...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 836 cc1635-6 (Link to this contribution)

I thank noble Lords for their contributions to this relatively brief debate. Amendment 45 relates...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 836 c1636 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister identify what “internal procedures”—I am using the phrase from Article 24—are l...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 836 c1636 (Link to this contribution)

I am afraid I cannot clarify that but, as I have said, the Government will ratify in the UK only ...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 836 c1636 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister undertake to write to those of us in the House who are interested in this befor...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 836 cc1636-7 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I can certainly undertake to do that.

Furthermore, I can confirm that under Article 20...

Lord Scriven | 836 c1637 (Link to this contribution)

Before the Minister sits down, let me say that I asked four very specific questions about the chi...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 836 c1638 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I did not entirely overlook them; I thought they were redundant, on the basis that ther...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 836 c1638 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as always, I am grateful to all noble Lords, not only those who have spoken in this gro...

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