My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for, as ever, a thorough response to the issues that have been raised during this interesting debate. I am grateful to all noble Lords who have participated.
I appreciate the frustrations of Government Whips, but the purpose of your Lordships’ House is to give proper scrutiny to legislation that comes before us. This is a long and complex Bill with diverse issues, many of which go right to the heart of our communities’ concerns, and it is only right and proper that we raise the issues that we know they would want us to probe and explore in this House.
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I turn to some of the comments that have been made. I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, for, as ever, championing the needs of the disabled
members of our communities and making sure that we consider those, as he often does with legislation. It is important to have his voice making that very clear. I took on board his point about reasserting the primary purpose of pavements. He is quite right to say that they are our pavements, and we need to protect that.
The noble Lord mentioned A-boards, which are a particular bugbear of mine; they have proliferated on our high streets in recent years. What tends to happen is that a local authority makes a representation to a business asking it to move the board; it does so, but two days later the board is back where it was. They constitute an obstruction, as does sprawling pavement furniture.
Regarding the e-scooters that he and other noble Lords mentioned, I was interested to hear the solution proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra. Perhaps we all need one of those high-powered buggies that can move them into the road, but maybe there are better solutions. After all, we know who operates e-scooters—they have to be booked and registered for each ride—and it should be the responsibility of the companies that run them to go after the people who irresponsibly leave them in inappropriate places.
The noble Lord, Lord Holmes, referred to this being the “prohibition of sprawling seating” amendment. I like that description; it is very clear.
There are complexities regarding the use of highways. I am a councillor in a two-tier area, and the district council, not the highways authority, offers pavement licences. Highway closures require a different type of legislation; you need a traffic order to do that. I know that because we have a fantastic farmers’ market in Stevenage, and I had to use my locality budget to pay for the road closure the first few times it operated, because it did so on the highway. It is very successful now and runs on its own. So if we are going to use bits of the road, we may need to look at formal road closures.
The noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, said that these were brought in as temporary measures, and that is right. That is why the consultation processes need to be extended. I was pleased to hear the Minister say that they will be extended to 28 days but, ridiculously, the Government still insist that these appear in local newspapers, meaning that any such notices, including planning notices, take a long time to get out to people. If we could do them and advertise them online, that might be a more efficient way of doing things, but that is an argument for a different day.
On the powerful advocacy of the noble Lord, Lord Young, for prohibiting smoking in the defined areas, I am pleased to say up front that in Stevenage, smoking is prohibited in those areas. It was interesting to hear that two-thirds of the public do not think that smoking should be permitted in those outside areas. The Minister said that, where local authorities make these designations without specifying smoking or non-smoking areas, both have to be included, but that does not really account for issues such as smoke drift. If you are somewhere where there is both smoking and non-smoking areas—especially outside, where it might be windy and smoke will blow towards you—I do not see how it will be possible to make any of those areas
smoke free. That took me back to the days when prohibitions on smoking indoors started to be mooted. Back in the day, it was quite common to smoke in cinemas, restaurants and even, dare I say it, council meetings. We would not dream of doing that now; things have changed over the years, and for the better.
The noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, referred to being banned by Putin. That is probably a badge of honour; I gather that my noble friend Lady Hayman is also banned by Putin, so well done for that.
The issue of accessibility is not just for those with mobility issues. A couple of noble Lords mentioned buggies. As a conscientious granny, I am sometimes charged with pushing a double buggy around, and it is incredibly difficult to navigate the streets with one of those.
The noble Lord, Lord Moylan, referred to ancient obligations to keep the King’s highway clear. Things move on. I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, who said that these areas have livened up our high streets and made them better and more interesting places to be, so I think we can move on. Still, I congratulate the noble Lord on giving up smoking. It is usually recent converts who are the most powerful evangelists for non-smoking, so it was interesting to hear his intervention.
The noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, referred to fees for cleaning and maintenance. The LGA has long advocated that local authorities should be able to set their own fees for such matters. It is important that we are not prescriptive but allow local authorities to set fees that meet their local needs. I said that when I introduced the amendments and still believe it to be true.
The Minister talked in his closing remarks about the vivacity and vitality that these outdoor areas bring to our high streets. We agree; we just need to make sure that the accessibility is right. We need to make sure that they are accessible for everyone and are not creating unnecessary obstructions for those who already have enough difficulty getting around. With that, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.