UK Parliament / Open data

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Lords committee stage fourth day. Clause 6 agreed to as amended. Schedule 1 agreed to as amended. Clauses 7 to 11 agreed to. Schedule 12 agreed to. Clause 12 under consideration. (Part 1 of 2).
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
828 cc575-634 
Session
2022-23
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Proceeding contributions

Show all contributions (122)
Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 828 c575 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, following the tabling of my amendment on Friday, there has been positive discussion in ...

Baroness Ludford | 828 cc575-6 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Ludford

68: After Clause 5, insert the following new Clause—

...

Baroness Ludford | 828 cc576-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in moving Amendment 68 I will speak to Amendments 69 and 69A in the name of the noble B...

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate | 828 cc578-580 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have not contributed at all in this Committee and I am going to say only a very few w...

Baroness Wheatcroft | 828 c580 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak briefly to both Amendments 68 and 69. This Bill, as others have said, crea...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 828 c580 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support the three amendments, but I do not intend to speak on them. I just wanted to ...

Baroness Brinton | 828 cc580-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will add one very brief point as well—following on from my noble friend Lady Ludford ...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 828 cc581-2 (Link to this contribution)

I am not a lawyer—that will become very apparent from what I am going to say—but I support Amendm...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 828 cc582-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I too am extremely grateful to the Minister for his letter; I actually got it on Friday...

Lord Callanan | 828 cc583-5 (Link to this contribution)

I thank all Peers who have contributed to the debate. I was getting a bit concerned about the sub...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 828 c585 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. Before he sits down, I refer him to the second para...

Lord Callanan | 828 c585 (Link to this contribution)

They are the domestic principles of interpretation that have been used by the courts since time i...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 828 c585 (Link to this contribution)

In time immemorial, we were not members of the European Union. Is the Minister saying that we all...

Lord Callanan | 828 c585 (Link to this contribution)

No, I am not saying that at all. Case law is not abolished: courts will still be able to take cas...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 828 c585 (Link to this contribution)

We are talking about the courts and cases. Surely the courts will have to look at the domestic pr...

Lord Callanan | 828 c586 (Link to this contribution)

The courts will use the same principles they have used for the interpretation of UK statute for m...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 828 c586 (Link to this contribution)

Workers will want to know precisely which of their rights will be impacted by this clause. Of the...

Lord Callanan | 828 c586 (Link to this contribution)

We will keep the dashboard updated as work progresses. As the noble Lord knows, we had this debat...

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate | 828 c586 (Link to this contribution)

I have just realised that my noble friend referred a moment ago to this Parliament’s lack of invo...

Lord Callanan | 828 c586 (Link to this contribution)

It is slightly off the point, but I hope the noble Lord is not trying to argue that the UK Parlia...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 828 c586 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the point that I want to probe a bit more is the known unknowns. We do not really know ...

Lord Callanan | 828 c587 (Link to this contribution)

The reference in that is to the policy intent of the particular piece of retained EU law. The poi...

Baroness Brinton | 828 c587 (Link to this contribution)

This takes us back to the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee report, which specific...

Lord Callanan | 828 c587 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry if the noble Baroness believes that. We have debated the principle of the sunset. I ac...

Baroness Ludford | 828 cc587-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, while it is in my mind, I am not sure the Minister answered my noble friend Lady Brinto...

Lord Callanan | 828 c589 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Callanan

73: Clause 6, page 4, line 15, at end insert—

Lord Callanan | 828 c589 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Callanan

77: Clause 6, page 5, line 7, at end insert—

““retained ...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 828 c589 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

81: Clause 7, page 5, line 30, leave out “mus...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 828 cc589-592 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my noble friend the Minister for the letter which we received during the course of this m...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 828 c592 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I agree with what has just been said by the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, and I speak ...

Viscount Hailsham | 828 cc592-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am going to speak briefly about Amendments 83, 84, 87, 87A and 87B. I do so as a jobb...

Lord Etherton | 828 cc593-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as a result of the lack of time to address the amendments to Clause 7 last Thursday, th...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 828 c596 (Link to this contribution)

The Committee will be aware that I am not a fan of this Bill because it marginalises Parliament. ...

Baroness Ludford | 828 c596 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendments 85 and 88, as a co-signatory of both those amendments, led ...

Baroness Ludford | 828 c597 (Link to this contribution)

And his notes, indeed, although any use I make of them is entirely down to me.

I want to st...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 828 c598 (Link to this contribution)

I am listening carefully to what the noble Baroness is saying, but it has nothing to do with “pre...

Baroness Ludford | 828 c598 (Link to this contribution)

I trust the courts; clearly, the noble Lord does not. I believe that the courts do know what they...

Viscount Hailsham | 828 c598 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness is entirely right about the leap into the unknown. Does this not emphasise the...

Baroness Ludford | 828 cc598-9 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Viscount is absolutely right, and I agreed with every word of his earlier contribution....

Lord Whitty | 828 cc599-600 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, your Lordships may have noticed that there is a rather cruder amendment in my name towa...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 828 cc600-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have no legal training, so I going to rely on noble and learned Lords to tell me whet...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 828 cc601-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have been looking forward to this group of amendments because I thought that this mig...

Lord Bellamy | 828 cc603-6 (Link to this contribution)

I thank all noble Lords who have tabled amendments in this group. I will start with some general ...

Viscount Hailsham | 828 c604 (Link to this contribution)

It also clearly extends to statute-based law. Is that not a case for bringing the courts into exp...

Lord Bellamy | 828 c604 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the courts are always astute. They sort of intuitively know where they have to stop and...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 828 c604 (Link to this contribution)

I think I understand the Minister’s argument about “proper” in new paragraph (c) in Clause 7(3), ...

Lord Bellamy | 828 c604 (Link to this contribution)

As far as I know, this is not intended to be prejudicial, but it presupposes a case where there i...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 828 c604 (Link to this contribution)

I am looking at the same clause as the noble Lord, Lord Kerr. He asked about new subsection (5) (...

Lord Bellamy | 828 c604 (Link to this contribution)

If I may say so to the noble Baroness, I think this is just a drafting point. The extent may well...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 828 c607 (Link to this contribution)

I was not referring to the proper development of domestic law on this occasion. At the top of pag...

Lord Bellamy | 828 c607 (Link to this contribution)

I think I can take it not much further than the answer that I have just given—that the extent may...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 828 c607 (Link to this contribution)

But why are we asking courts to ask themselves that question?

Lord Bellamy | 828 c607 (Link to this contribution)

The answer is that the courts will not raise these questions of their own motion. These points wi...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 828 c607 (Link to this contribution)

I think the Minister was about to sit down, but he kindly invited me to respond so I will. I thin...

Lord Bellamy | 828 cc607-8 (Link to this contribution)

Respectfully, as I said a moment ago, I do not accept that this will lead to a great deal of unce...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 828 c608 (Link to this contribution)

I have listened very carefully, and there is a fundamental flaw in my noble friend’s argument as ...

Lord Bellamy | 828 cc608-9 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my noble friend Lady McIntosh for that intervention, and I stand corrected. She is comple...

Baroness Ludford | 828 cc609-610 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise if I am interrupting the Minister before he has finished; I think he is replying to A...

Lord Harlech | 828 c610 (Link to this contribution)

I ask the noble Baroness to put her question to the Minister.

Baroness Ludford | 828 c610 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I am getting to it. I want an explanation. I said the Minister’s reply was “puzzling” but, i...

Lord True | 828 c610 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, at the previous stage I reminded the House, I thought courteously, of chapter 4.29 of t...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 828 c610 (Link to this contribution)

Before the Leader of the House sits down, perhaps he could just clarify that point. I have always...

Lord True | 828 c610 (Link to this contribution)

I say to the noble Lord that the answer is precisely so; it is a conversation, but that conversat...

Baroness Ludford | 828 c611 (Link to this contribution)

If I may be permitted to finish, I have now had three interventions from the Government Front Ben...

Lord Bellamy | 828 c611 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the Government’s position is that this is not a straitjacket. The courts are required t...

Lord Etherton | 828 c611 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, will the Minister please reply to the point I made? The situation may be such, as we kn...

Lord Bellamy | 828 cc611-2 (Link to this contribution)

That might raise the question of whether indeed it was relevant. You could say, “That’s not relev...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 828 c612 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister does not have to be sorry. The noble Viscount, Lord Hailsham, was only coughing.

...
Lord Bellamy | 828 c612 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry. I am rather nervous when noble Lords come at me from all directions, especially the n...

Viscount Hailsham | 828 c612 (Link to this contribution)

I am so sorry. I did not mean to interrupt.

Lord Bellamy | 828 c612 (Link to this contribution)

That is quite all right.

This is the logic of the approach. It is a cross-UK approach and n...

Lord Bellamy | 828 cc612-3 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry. I was saying that this is a structure that gives the UK law officers power in relatio...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 828 c613 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the Minister for the skill with which he is trying to explain to a layman l...

Lord Bellamy | 828 c613 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, fortunately, I think I was asked by the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, for only one example, an...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 828 cc613-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it has been a lengthy and thorough debate, and I fear it has not gone quite as smoothly...

Baroness Ludford | 828 cc614-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will move the Motion, in the name of my noble friend Lord Fox, that Clause 10 do not ...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 828 cc615-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 104, 115, 116, 122, 124 and 125 in my name, and in support o...

Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 828 c616 (Link to this contribution)

Before my noble friend proceeds to the next amendment, she has gone on about the uncertainty crea...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 828 c616 (Link to this contribution)

I would agree with my noble friend if we knew which bits of REUL were being repealed, which were ...

Baroness Meacher | 828 cc616-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will follow the words of the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford. I have added my name to th...

Baroness Brinton | 828 cc617-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is an honour to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher; I agree with everything she...

Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 828 c618 (Link to this contribution)

Before the noble Baroness finishes her remarks, I would be grateful if she could answer my questi...

Baroness Brinton | 828 c618 (Link to this contribution)

It is fairly straightforward. Those of us with extreme concerns about the Bill do not want a Bill...

Baroness Fox of Buckley | 828 cc618-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have tried to follow and to listen to as much of the discussions on the Bill as possi...

Baroness Ludford | 828 c619 (Link to this contribution)

I just wanted to say to the noble Baroness—and I probably will not go into lawmaking in the EU, a...

Baroness Fox of Buckley | 828 c619 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate that I have not been in the Chamber for all of that time, although I have been here ...

Baroness Fox of Buckley | 828 c620 (Link to this contribution)

I have got more questions flying at me today.

Baroness Brinton | 828 c620 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, for giving way for my question to the nob...

Baroness Fox of Buckley | 828 c620 (Link to this contribution)

I am concerned about aspects of this Bill from a delegated powers point of view, as I have been o...

Lord Krebs | 828 cc620-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 129 and 131 in this group in my name and those of the noble ...

Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 828 c622 (Link to this contribution)

Will the noble Lord explain why the Government would want to compromise the health of the consumi...

Lord Krebs | 828 c622 (Link to this contribution)

That is an extremely good question and I thank the noble Lord for asking it. That is precisely wh...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 828 cc622-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will not detain the Committee for long. Obviously, my noble friend and the Front Benc...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 828 cc623-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have ensured that the Bill contains robust scrutiny mechanisms that will enable the ...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 828 cc624-5 (Link to this contribution)

Before the Minister leaves the question of allowing Clause 10 to stand part, I am surprised at he...

Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 828 c625 (Link to this contribution)

Surely the thing that concerns businesses is how legislation is going to be amended, not whether ...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 828 cc625-6 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Lords for their interventions. I did say that I understood the concerns of the ...

Lord Krebs | 828 c627 (Link to this contribution)

To wind back a few sentences, the Minister quite rightly said that the Department of Health would...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 828 c627 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure the Ministers responsible at the Department of Health and in the devolved nations will ...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 828 c627 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness should not therefore have a problem in saying that they will consult it. Can w...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 828 c627 (Link to this contribution)

As I said, I am sure that the Health Ministers will consult the Food Standards Agency. The food s...

Lord Hacking | 828 c627 (Link to this contribution)

I think the question my noble friend was asking was what the Government’s position is—that is the...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 828 cc627-8 (Link to this contribution)

I have given my answer. I have been very clear about the importance we attach to food safety from...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 828 c628 (Link to this contribution)

We keep being told that there is not going to be consultation or legislative consent, and that th...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 828 c628 (Link to this contribution)

I understand. I am very grateful to the noble Baroness for trying to help to move things forward;...

Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 828 c628 (Link to this contribution)

As the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, said, the Minister has turned down every single amendment in...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 828 cc629-630 (Link to this contribution)

I think I said “decades” once. This is of course a bit different from the normal laws that we deb...

Baroness Henig | 828 c630 (Link to this contribution)

The Question is that Clause 10 stand part of the Bill.

Baroness Ludford | 828 cc630-1 (Link to this contribution)

I believe I have a right to reply; I have been corrected so many times today that I do not know w...

Baroness Henig | 828 c631 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise to the noble Baroness for what happened earlier.

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 828 c631 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

102: Clause 12, page 16, line 4, at end inser...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 828 cc631-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am delighted that we have reached this group, which concerns restatement powers. The ...

Baroness Humphreys | 828 cc633-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 103 and 106 in my name. My Amendment 103 is an amendment to ...

Notes
Scottish Legislative Consent withheld, Welsh and Northern Ireland Legislative Consent sought.