I will not speak for long. This has been a very important debate, and very positive: across the Chamber, Members are in agreement that we need clarity from the Government about what they are proposing regarding the constitution of the CCAs.
There is one element that has not yet been raised. Where the constituent members are not equal in size, is that to be reflected in the constitution of that particular CCA? I will give an example that was raised in earlier groups. I asked the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, about Devon. It has a county council; Plymouth is a unitary, as a city; so is Torbay, as a unitary district. Those three are very different in size, population and economic geography, which we talked about earlier. Are they equal members with a similar number of voting rights? As the Bill says, they can each nominate at least one, but will there be an expectation that they be proportionate to their size and responsibilities? That is not clear and needs to be clarified by the Government before we get any further.
Then there are the non-constituent members. I agree wholeheartedly with Amendment 71 from the noble Lord, Lord Foster: the easy way forward is to say that district councils are democratic bodies within the CCA and have a right to be full members. As I have said just now about constituent members, CCAs can and will have to decide proportionality, and they could do that with regard to the districts. It makes good sense.
Frankly, as somebody who has spent most of my life as an elected person, I find it insulting that a democratically elected body such as a district council
is aligned with other non-constituent bodies and put in the same category as local business groups, chambers of trade or trade union bodies, which are not elected by the public. I can see why you would want other groups to be associated with the CCA, but, if they are not democratically elected and therefore democratically accountable, they should be in a different category.
This leads me to associate members. I personally think that they should not exist and I shall leave it at that. Why should they? Somebody tell me. Get individual, unaccountable to anybody—nobody needs to know who they are; perhaps they are somebody’s mate—on there to stuff the numbers the right way. It is just not acceptable.
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The only other point I think I want to make is about the appointment of deputy mayors to take on the role of police and crime commissioners. That is the situation we have in West Yorkshire. People in West Yorkshire had the right to vote for a mayor, and the successful mayor was then able to appoint somebody to be responsible for police and crime in the whole of West Yorkshire. This is not a reflection on the individual, who is doing a good job. There is, however, a question here, because the experience of police and crime commissioners in the country has been variable, to say the least. In one or two cases, it was worse than variable: question marks have been put against their names and their positions and how they are carrying out their duties, to the extent that they have had to resign.
Now, if you have an appointed deputy mayor who is then responsible for the duties and responsibilities of a police and crime commissioner, how does that work? Where is the accountability? Does the elected mayor carry the can for what their appointed deputy has to do? That is the only way that I think it might be able to work. It is an area that we need to resolve, and this Bill gives us the opportunity to do so.
My last and final point is just to say how important Amendment 69, about proportionality, is. There will be voices from across political groups in the very big, strategic issues that are going to be determined by combined authorities. To take proportionality away—to disapply it—is a mistake, and I hope that the noble Earl will take away the very strong feelings that have been expressed in the Chamber and come back with revised proposals.