My Lords, I am grateful for the debate on this issue, and I hope that the House will forgive me if I take a little time to address the important matters that have been raised. As always, there has been much emotion, and there have been some strong speeches, for which I am grateful. However, I need to take the House back to the Bill.
On Amendment 91, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, and the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, on forced organ harvesting, I pay tribute, as I have done before, to the tenacity with which the noble Lord has pursued this important issue. It is right that this abhorrent practice is exposed and confronted. The Government have taken action, both at home and abroad, to make clear that complicity in the abuses associated with the overseas organ trade will not be tolerated. As the noble Lord said, the Health and Care Act made it an offence to travel outside the UK to purchase an organ, and the Government have urged the World Health Organization to consider the findings of the China Tribunal on organ harvesting. I confirm to the noble Lord, Lord Alton, that the hospital he referred to in China will not carry out organ transplants. Moreover, it did not receive any government funding.
However, I am afraid it remains the case that the Procurement Bill is not the right place to take action on this issue. Every exclusion ground, whether mandatory or discretionary, must be considered for every supplier on every procurement—that is thousands of contracts every year. Each additional ground will add a burden for contracting authorities that, however marginal, will add up to a significant amount of time and money overall. I am reminded of my noble friend Lord Maude’s comments on Monday about the risk of trying to include too many wider public policy objectives in the Bill. If we add this, what else do we need to add? This is why I have sought to limit the grounds, particularly those that, like this one, require an assessment of factual circumstances, to those where there is a major and particular risk to public procurement. I am not aware of any evidence that any supplier to the UK public sector has been involved in forced organ harvesting.
Moreover, the scope of the proposed exclusion ground is very broad, covering not just organ harvesting but also any
“unethical activities relating to human tissue”.
The third limb of the amendment permits exclusion simply for
“dealing in any device or equipment or services relating to conduct”
covered by the first two limbs. This would seem to extend so broadly as to cover even the use of ordinary surgical equipment, where the supplier might have had no prior knowledge that it was previously used for the prohibited purposes. For these reasons, I am concerned that this ground would be extremely difficult for contracting authorities to apply in practice. While I sympathise with the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, I cannot see a way of including organ harvesting in the Bill, although I am glad that we have focused on it this evening.
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I turn now to Amendments 94 and 95 tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Alton. In response to his comments on the situation in Xinjiang, I say that of course the Government are concerned about the widespread use
of invasive and systematic surveillance there that disproportionately targets Uighurs and other minorities. In line with the Prime Minister’s speech on Monday, which has been much referenced, the UK has led international efforts to hold China to account for its human rights violations in Xinjiang. We have imposed sanctions, provided guidance to businesses, announced measures to tackle forced labour, and led statements at the United Nations. The Government have spoken out publicly, and will continue to do so.
I am glad there has been a warm welcome for last week’s announcement in relation to the use of Chinese surveillance equipment on the government estate. This is a significant step; all government departments will be expected to remove such equipment from sensitive sites, and to avoid procuring it in future. I confirm that this applies to both Hikvision and Dahua. This is a clear demonstration that the Government are prepared to act to protect the integrity of our security arrangements. We recognise that action taken should be proportionate to the risk. We encourage all organisations to follow national cybersecurity guidance when selecting a technology supplier, and this guidance clearly sets the security standards that suppliers should meet and the considerations that organisations should be making during the procurement process. We will continue to keep this risk under review and will take further steps if they become necessary.
In addition, we have taken action in the Bill to introduce an exclusion ground for suppliers that are considered to pose a threat to the national security of the UK. Combined with the new powers for a centralised debarment list, this will mean that where the risk is sufficiently serious, Ministers can act quickly to ensure that suppliers who threaten national security face exclusion from all contracts across the public sector. We have shown our determination only last week, as I said, and the Bill strengthens our powers in this space.
I turn now to what Amendment 94 actually does. In mandating a timeline for the removal of existing physical technology or surveillance equipment from the Government’s supply chain, the amendment seeks to interfere directly with security arrangements on the government estate. I am afraid this is out of step with the Bill, which is principally about setting rules for the fair and open procurement of contracts by the entire public sector. The Bill is not concerned with existing equipment or kit which has already been installed, or with the termination of existing contracts by central government. On that basis, while I sympathise with the points made by noble Lords, and will ensure they are shared more broadly, I believe that we are taking the right approach in the Bill and I am very uneasy about this amendment.
I turn now to Amendment 95 on product labelling; there has not been much discussion of it.