UK Parliament / Open data

Northern Ireland Protocol Bill

Did I say “Lord Tweed of Purvis”? It is written in my notes as “Tweed of Purvis”. It is getting late. I am picking up on the noble Lord, Lord Campbell—it is catching. Maybe there is a suggestion in there—I would be the noble Lord, Lord Wimbledon of Ahmad. My apologies to the noble Lord.

The Government have references to the potential use of powers in Clause 13(4), which several noble Lords mentioned. In short, these would ensure an effective assurance and enforcement regime that could give confidence in the protection of the UK and EU markets. This includes fulfilling our ongoing commitment to provide data to, and to co-operate with, the EU, an intrinsic part of the overall model. The noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, also raised the issue of data sharing and I will come to that in a moment.

The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, rightly raised the protection of Article 2. I assure the noble Lord—I believe I said this on one of the previous Committee days and my noble friend Lord Caine also answered on this—that my noble friend Lady Altmann and I

have discussed this, and we have made sure that the response is fully integrated. The UK is committed to ensuring that rights and equality protections continue to be upheld in Northern Ireland, in line with the provisions of Article 2 of the protocol. That is why Article 2, as my noble friend Lord Caine also made clear, is explicitly protected from being made an excluded provision in Clause 15. My noble friend discussed this with and responded to the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, and I know from exchanges between the two departments that we will respond in writing to the noble Baroness, as promised. We will share that with noble Lords, placing a copy in the Library. I assure noble Lords that this point is not lost. As I have said, where further clarity can be provided during the passage of the Bill, my colleagues and I will seek to provide it.

7.15 pm

I thank the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, for pointing out the importance of one treaty and its relation to the others. He has drawn attention to an important point, particularly when it comes to the TCA. If I may, I will write to confirm that fact specifically. To my mind, it is necessary that when we bring forward legislation we reflect on its importance and its impact on existing treaties, particularly those with key partners. The point is well understood and I will confirm in writing to the noble Earl.

As set out in the Northern Ireland protocol, the UK’s solution is to put in place a trusted trader scheme and share data on its operation and data from relevant customs systems. This is an integral part of providing assurance, the need for which I understand, to the European Union on the operation of the new regime and the protection of its single market, while recognising that arrangements within the United Kingdom should be a matter for the UK Government. If I heard correctly, the noble Lord, Lord Hain, who speaks with great insight and experience, said that the British Government were seeking sovereignty. That is the crux. Northern Ireland is an integral part of the United Kingdom and the concerns raised about the protocol and its operation are exactly why the Government are seeking to act in the way that the Bill would introduce. At the same time, we understand that we must work constructively with the European Union, which is why I have alluded previously—and do so again—to the constructive nature of our engagement with EU partners. I accept that these are highly complex arrangements that will require sufficiently flexible powers to be effective, as technology and our relationship with the EU evolve.

I turn now to Amendment 21, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman of Darlington. I think we have covered this but, at the risk of repeating myself, the Government have made their position very clear, although I look to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, on this issue. I heard what he said about its importance and I take on board the fact that previous Bills may have passed and may also be working. The point is understood about the nature of the debate we have had, and will continue to have, over “necessary” and “appropriate”. However, the Government feel that to allow maximum flexibility, “necessary” is the avenue they are pursuing.

I turn now to Amendments 21B and 23C in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Hain. I am grateful to the noble Lord for bringing this important issue before the Committee. Let me put on record that the Government have always been clear that we want to cement the provisions in the protocol that are working. I heard very clearly the passionate remarks and insights of my noble friend Lord Deben about the importance of the single electricity market. Irrespective of where we are sitting or what perspectives we have, no one would disagree with the noble Lord, Lord Hain, about the benefits the single electricity market provides to all citizens across the island of Ireland including, importantly, citizens in Northern Ireland. It is precisely for this reason that we assure my noble friend Lord Deben, the noble Lord, Lord Hain, and all noble Lords, that the Bill does not seek to exclude Article 9 or Annexe 4 of the protocol, which would maintain the single electricity market.

It is the Government’s view that it is inappropriate for the CJEU to be the final arbiter of certain disputes between the UK and EU law under the protocol. The Bill removes the effect in domestic law of the jurisdiction of the CJEU in enforcing or interpreting law that applies in Northern Ireland. The Government are confident—notwithstanding the remarks made by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, which ignited my response, if I may continue with the bad jokes at this hour—in the ability of UK courts to interpret the law which applies in Northern Ireland. But, of course, the powers in the Bill enable the Government to deal with any issues that might arise in relation to the interpretation of EU law underpinning—

Type
Proceeding contribution
Reference
825 cc284-6 
Session
2022-23
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
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