I reiterate what was said a little while ago: this is about asylum, not general immigration policy. There is a considerable difference between the two; that does not always get recognised.
This proposal to offshore asylum claims is inconsistent with the global humanitarian and co-operative principles on which refugee protection is founded. Frankly, if everybody did what we are proposing, there would not be much of the refugee convention left, as I am sure everybody recognises and, in their heart of hearts, knows to be true.
Having made those introductory comments, I will endeavour to be brief. I want to ask one or two questions. The Minister in the Commons said:
“Schedule 3 aims to reduce the draw of the UK by working to make it easier to remove someone to a safe country where their claim will be processed. It amends existing legal frameworks to support our future objective to transfer some asylum claims to a safe third country for processing.”—[Official Report, Commons, Nationality and Borders Bill Committee, 26/10/21; col. 388.]
As I have just indicated, the Minister referred to “some asylum claims” being transferred. Will the Government spell out in their reply what categories or types of asylum claims would be processed in another country, and what categories or types of asylum claims would be processed in this country? In addition, based on claims made over the past three years, what number or percentage of total asylum claims and claimants would be processed in and removed to another country, and what number or percentage of total asylum claims would still be processed in this country? I assume that the Government have figures on that.
Information on the countries we have reached agreement with for offshore processing has been, to say the least, a bit thin on the ground, with Ministers saying to date that they are not prepared to enter into a “running commentary” on the conversations that are taking place. I hope that the Government will be a little more forthcoming today on which specific countries we have reached agreement with, or confidently expect to reach agreement with, and which countries have declined to reach an agreement with us. Also, how many different bilateral negotiations are we currently involved in?
It is unacceptable to be told by the Government that we should agree to a policy and its associated clauses and schedules, which, however repugnant, are meaningless and cannot be implemented unless appropriate agreements are reached with other countries—and then, when asking the Government to give information on whether
and what agreements have been concluded, to be told by them that it is none of our business. That is what the Government have been doing to date. We expect better from their response today. However, if the Government are going to continue to play dumb on this issue, perhaps it would be better for them to withdraw Clause 28 and Schedule 3 until such time as they have concluded agreements with other countries, without which the policy cannot be implemented.
The only thing the Government have said is that the model the Home Office intends to proceed with is
“one where individuals would be processed as part of the asylum system of the country that we had an agreement with, rather than people being offshore and processed as part of our asylum system.”
So it is not just offshoring; it is also treating and dealing with people under another country’s asylum system rather than our own. The duty to ensure that the rights of asylum seekers are respected would still fall on the UK; it would be helpful if the Government could confirm that in their response.
Essentially, as has already been said, the UK would be outsourcing its refugee convention obligations, potentially to less wealthy nations. The UNHCR has been highly critical of efforts to offshore asylum processing, noting how
“offshoring of asylum processing often results in the forced transfer of refugees to other countries with inadequate State asylum systems, treatment standards and resources. It can lead to indefinite ‘ware-housing’ of asylum-seekers in isolated places where they are ‘out of sight and out of mind’, exposing them to serious harm. It may also de-humanise asylum-seekers.”
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The comment has already been made that it appears that the Government are seeking to emulate as a model the Australian system—a system which has been widely condemned for its human rights abuses. Offshoring presents a significant risk of harm, particularly to vulnerable people, since the reality is that the UK Government would have much less control over the treatment of detainees than they do in this country, where there have nevertheless been unacceptable incidents and unacceptable standards. Since the Government have said that the object of offshoring is deterrence, there must presumably be no exceptions to the policy. Perhaps the Government could confirm whether or not that is the case.
Policy measures that rely on deterrence assume that people have a choice in the decisions they make. People who are forced to flee their country because of violence and persecution in reality have no such choice. Consequently, deterrent measures will not stop them making the journey to find safety.
There is no empirical evidence to support the effectiveness of offshoring as a deterrent strategy in respect of those fleeing persecution. The likelihood is thus that offshoring will be completely ineffective in its aims as well as inhumane—that is leaving aside the moral issues that have already been referred to. I shall not go into the figures, but I too believe that the financial cost of the Australian system is very high. It would be helpful if the Government could say in the light of the Australian experience on costs what their estimated cost per case is for this country in respect of
an asylum claim processed in another country and the asylum seeker being transferred to it, since I assume that the Government will have some fairly accurate and up-to-date figures on that point.
Will the Government also say what their evidence is to substantiate the claim in the Explanatory Notes that the policy will
“deter irregular migration and clandestine entry to the UK”?
I am not sure what the evidence is to substantiate that assertion.
In the Commons, the Minister said:
“Schedule 3 is designed to be part of a whole system deterrent effect to prevent illegal migration. Access to the UK’s asylum system should be based on need, and not driven by the actions of criminal enterprise.”—[Official Report, Commons, Nationality and Borders Bill Committee, 26/10/21; col. 388.]
Can the Government say how this policy of processing asylum claims in another country and removing claimants to that other country is based on need? No assessment of need would be made before a person could be moved to that third country, so need does not enter into it as far as the Government are concerned. If I am wrong in that, no doubt the Government will say why it is based on need.
In addition, the Commons Minister mentioning “criminality” later in that response does not make this a clause which is targeted at criminals. It is targeted at people who are desperately seeking refuge and have legitimate reasons to be granted it. It is not targeted at those involved in the kind of criminal enterprise to which we all object most strongly and wish to see stamped out.
On another issue—it has already been raised, but I shall repeat it—in the Commons the Government said that children would not be transferred overseas for their claims to be processed. I too ask: what happens if a family arrives seeking asylum? Will they be split up, with the parents sent to a third country for their claim to be processed and the child or children remaining in this country for their claim to be processed here? As others have asked, what happens to those whose asylum claims are accepted and who have had the claim processed overseas? What happens to those who have been removed to another country for their claim to be processed if their asylum claim is rejected?
My name is down in respect of two stand part notices, in relation to Clause 28 and Schedule 3. This is an unworkable, highly expensive and politically driven policy which is not even backed up by the agreements with other countries that are needed to bring it into effect. The policy appears based on the Australian model, which was costly and did not seem to provide as much deterrent effect as intended as far as those arriving by boat were concerned.