My Lords, as noble Lords will be aware, we debated these amendments in Committee. At that time, they were withdrawn without a vote, although I acknowledge that, as the noble Lord, Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames, fairly said, those who spoke in Committee overwhelmingly supported the amendment.
I have of course listened very carefully to the various speeches and points made around the House this evening. I think it is fair to say that the arguments in support can perhaps be distilled in four points. I set them out not to make the case against me stronger but perhaps at least to reassure the House that I have understood it. First, the Youth Justice board model has been a success in reducing the number of children entering the youth justice system or custody and, therefore, it is an appropriate model to follow as the needs of women are distinct. Secondly, sometimes their needs are similar, for different reasons, to the needs of children. Thirdly, women are often victims as well as offenders and largely commit non-violent and low-level crime. Fourthly, a women’s justice board would provide the effective leadership and drive to address the particular needs of women in the criminal justice system and divert them before they come into contact with that system by preventing offending in the first place. The House should therefore be reassured that the Government and I have understood and considered carefully the case. As the noble Lord, Lord Marks, said, we have had a number of very helpful discussions about it.
The Government recognise that women who are in or at risk of contact with the criminal justice system have distinct needs that require a distinct approach, and we have acted in a practical sense on that recognition. We published the Female Offender Strategy, which sets out a comprehensive programme of work to respond to those needs, and we remain committed to its delivery. The Advisory Board on Female Offenders provides external and independent oversight of the strategy, but my ministerial colleague in the other place, Minister Atkins, has also asked officials to review the wider governance arrangements for the strategy to ensure that they are fully fit for purpose to support the work across government which is vital to deliver the strategy.
I explained in Committee why the Government are not persuaded that the Youth Justice Board is the right model for addressing the needs of women. To take up the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, and others, I again underline that I agree and accept that the Youth Justice Board has done extremely good work in its area. There is a short point here, but I suggest it is very important. We have a separate youth justice system. The Youth Justice Board is a reflection of that different system. It is a specialised justice board for a specialised and separate justice system. That is not just to make the physical point that children are still maturing, so the justice system applies to them differently. It is to make the point that the youth justice system is significantly different from the adult justice system in a number of respects.
Let me set out a number of them. First, with youth justice, there is a statutory aim
“to prevent offending by children and young persons”.
That is from the Crime and Disorder Act 1998. There is a greater focus on prevention and diversion. Custody is used as a last resort, as it is in the adult system, but there is greater focus in the youth justice system because there are separate community services provided by youth offending teams, which are part of local authorities. There is a separate youth court with specially trained magistrates with different sentencing powers. There is a separate sentencing framework for children that does not apply to adults. Of course, there is also an entirely separate custodial estate, which is managed in an entirely different way.
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That is before one gets to the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, which we ratified. Article 40 covers children and justice, and expects states that are party to the convention
“to promote the establishment of laws, procedures, authorities and institutions specifically applicable to children alleged as, accused of, or recognized as having infringed the penal law”.
So it is not just that children have different requirements; there is an entirely separate justice system for them.
However, unlike children in the criminal justice system, there is no separate legal framework for women. Women are managed as part of the adult criminal justice system. We have one unitary adult criminal justice system, which is gender-neutral. To pick up the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, gender-neutral does not mean gender-blind.
The system is gender-neutral and applies equally to all offenders while—this is the important point—recognising their specific individual circumstances.
I assure the noble Baroness that I am entirely relaxed about taking ideas from elsewhere; when it comes to that, I am an unabashed Maimonidean. However, the fact is that the criminal justice system does look at the circumstances of women. We have far fewer women in prison. We had a very interesting debate on the amendment put down by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Gloucester on primary carers, in which I set out our position—and I shall not repeat it now. I absolutely accept the right reverend Prelate’s proposition that equality is not about sameness. I also accept the points made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd, that women have specific requirements because often they have been abused, and have specific requirements for rehabilitation. I agree with the noble and learned Lord and other speakers that the touchstone is delivery. However, I suggest to the House that the female offender strategy put in place by the Government takes full and proper account of the existing legal framework while setting out a comprehensive programme of work to respond to the needs of women in, or at risk of, contact with the criminal justice system.
To pick up the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, we do not disagree that the matters set out in the amendment and the work that the proposed board would do are important; the question here is how we will deliver that work. The Government believe that the matters set out there, many of which are very important, are part of and will be delivered by the female offender strategy. The question is not whether the work ought to be done; it is whether we need a new body to do it. I suggest that we do not. We have in place a comprehensive female offender strategy, which is the best vehicle to deliver that work. That is the right way to approach this, rather than going to the expense—and, yes, the time—of setting up a separate statutory body from scratch. I therefore respectfully agree with a lot of what the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, said. We agree broadly about the aims; this is really about the method of delivering them.
The underlying point is that we have a single adult criminal justice system. We should not, therefore, have a separate women’s justice board. The Youth Justice Board is for a separate justice system. Essentially, for that reason, I invite the noble Lord, Lord Marks, to withdraw his amendment.