Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill

My Lords, the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, is to retain simple cautions. The exam...

My Lords, it is fair to say that this group of amendments goes to the heart of why reform to out ...

Does the Minister not agree that good law is about a combination of rules and discretion? I quite...

Without turning this afternoon into a jurisprudential seminar, I certainly agree with the thrust ...

Can the Minister clarify something? I think he said something along the lines that the lowest lev...

As I said a moment ago, this relates to Clause 80(4) and Clause 89(4), if the noble Lord looks at...

Forgive me, but I sense an element of unworldliness about this. If it is appropriate in a given c...

Hear, hear.

May I first deal with the caution points? I do not want to run those two topics together. On caut...

I thank noble Lords who have participated in this short debate and am grateful for the qualified ...

Moved by

Lord Paddick

189ZA: Schedule 10, page 231, line 15, leave out sub-paragraphs...

Forgive me for the delay, my Lords—so many amendments, so little time, as it were.

I am gra...

My Lords, I support the noble Lord’s amendment. If I may, I will elasticate the rules of order sl...

My Lords, I am very interested in what the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, has just said. Although, aga...

My Lords, I have to agree with the three Members of the Committee who have just spoken. I will de...

My Lords, I will make a very brief point in support of what has just been said by the noble Baron...

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, for tabling his amendment. As we have seen throug...

My Lords, first, I will pick up one point from the last group to make it very clear: if I have ma...

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Carlile of Berriew, for talking beyond the amendment, in t...

Moved by

Baroness Massey of Darwen

191: Clause 101, page 86, line 14, leave out from ...

My Lords, I shall speak to amendments of various kinds in this group, all related to youth justic...

I will speak to the issues raised in these amendments. In summing up the last group of amendments...

My Lords, I speak on behalf of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Derby on this occasion, w...

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Massey, on tabling these amendments. I will spe...

I thank my noble friend Lady Massey for introducing these amendments. She did so comprehensively,...

My Lords, these amendments, which I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Massey, for putting d...

My noble friend clearly is right when he says that this is not a mandatory sentence, but does he ...

The purpose of a minimum sentence is that unless the threshold is met—we will debate in another g...

I am sorry to interrupt the Minister but in sentencing law and in the criminal justice system, mi...

That is exactly what it says in the paperwork we have.

The point I am making is very important and we will get to it in another group. I absolutely acce...

What is the essential difference in my noble friend’s mind between exceptional and particular cir...

As I say, there is a specific amendment on that point, so I will come to this in more detail then...

Is the Minister saying therefore that it will be a mandatory sentence unless there are exceptions...

Unless the exception is met, this is the sentence that will be imposed. I do not want to split ha...

It is awfully important in these kinds of cases that we are very clear and precise in our languag...

It is not a mandatory sentence, because you can impose more. Let us be clear: it is a minimum sen...

I am so sorry to elongate this, but it is important. The Minister, sitting in a Government with a...

I am really not sure that we are saying anything different. As I said, we will come in a later gr...

That is out of the ordinary. It is a high threshold.

I will come in a moment to the word “exceptional” as I think that was the point made by the noble...

I wonder if the Minister could be a little clearer. A moment ago he cited figures for the number ...

I am certainly not critical of any particular sentence passed in any particular case. What I do t...

Can the noble Lord tell me the difference, then, between the current words, which are “particular...

It is a higher bar.

I hear the words, “higher bar”. I do not disagree that “exceptional circumstances” is a stricter ...

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his response. I did not quite realise it would end up in a dis...

Moved by

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames

192A: Clause 101, page 86, line 20, leave out...

My Lords, all the amendments in this group are in my name and that of the noble Lord, Lord Pannic...

My Lords, I sometimes wonder when I read statutes that make provision for sentencing whether thos...

I support the amendment proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Marks, for very much the same reasons ad...

My Lords, in the light of what my predecessor as Lord Chief Justice, the noble and learned Lord, ...

My Lords, this has been an interesting debate. I agree with the points that the noble Lord, Lord ...

My Lords, these amendments seek to ensure that the courts depart from imposing a minimum sentence...

My Lords, I am grateful for the speeches that we have heard in this interesting debate, particula...

Moved by

Lord Falconer of Thoroton

195: After Clause 101, insert the following new Cl...

My Lords, this group contains three amendments in my name, and a Clause 103 stand part debate in ...

My Lords, I have a feeling I am going to be in a minority in this Committee. As much as I like an...

The noble Viscount may be assuaged by the fact that what I am talking about is the starting point...

We have been here before in previous debates. The effect is to make it mandatory unless there are...

My Lords, we have heard which amendments are in this slightly disparate group. On Amendment 195, ...

That is correct.

The only reason I make that point is that there was a misunderstanding—not inherent in the noble ...

My Lords, this is obviously an important set of amendments. I thank all those who spoke on the ar...

I am obliged to everybody who took part in the debate. There was widespread support around the Co...

Moved by

Lord Falconer of Thoroton

196A: After Clause 101, insert the following new C...

This is about a completely new topic that we have not addressed before, which is the unduly lenie...

My Lords, I am pleased to support the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, on Amendments 196A t...

My Lords, the amendments all refer to the unduly lenient sentence scheme, which is set out in Sec...

I express my gratitude to the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, and, through her, to the noble Barone...

Moved by

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar

205: Clause 107, page 94, line 36, leave out “may b...

My Lords, this is a drafting amendment to Clause 107. Its purpose, as I hope has been explained, ...

My Lords, we support these amendments. It is obviously right to remove the retrospection and we c...

Moved by

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar

207: Clause 107, page 95, line 24, leave out “may b...

Moved by

Lord Carlile of Berriew

208: Clause 109, leave out Clause 109 and insert the...

My Lords, this amendment stands in my name and the names of other noble Lords. In one way, this a...

My Lords, I have added my name to this amendment not because of its length but because of its imp...

My Lords, I support the purpose of this proposed new clause. It is highly desirable that there sh...

My Lords, this is a very interesting proposal. I think we all agree, across the House, that where...

My Lords, we have had a very interesting debate. The last few speeches have highlighted the probl...

That was a good statement of intent. When do the Government expect to be able to produce that? Wo...

I do not want to give an incorrect answer to the noble Lord. I know that there are different code...

On a related point—the obligation on the Secretary of State to give reasons—how detailed should t...

I have said that we will publish the principles which underpin the Secretary of State’s decision....

My Lords, I am very grateful to those who have intervened in this debate. I pay particular tribut...