I put my name to Amendment 8, and it is perhaps worth reminding ourselves what that says given the debate that we have just had. It says
“public access to and enjoyment of the natural environment”,
but it does not say whether that should be urban or rural.
My noble friend Lady Scott emphasised small spaces, and I very much welcome the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, who emphasised urban space
and greenery, which is much more accessible to the majority of our population. That reminds us of something which has always been true: in the countryside, perhaps as well as in urban areas, once people are at the car park, or wherever they decide to park their car—in a national park, an area of outstanding natural beauty, or by a nature reserve—the amount of travel that they do from that point is extremely limited.
One of the key things about this is public health and social prescribing, which people have been talking about. I am not an expert in that area, but in my role as chair of the Cornwall and Isles of Scilly Local Nature Partnership, we have decided to work closely with the local health and well-being board to make sure that we have a combined aim and goal to improve people’s lives by their access to the environment and to green spaces, which needs to be frequent rather than occasional—small bites, rather than occasional large sorties into the countryside.
I say to the noble Viscount, Lord Trenchard, that access to the countryside tends to be fairly limited, but I have to agree with him: during last summer in particular, I saw pictures on television of improvised barbecues and camping on beaches and areas of Dartmoor National Park. That is clearly an issue. But when I think about that I wonder what the equivalent is in an urban area. Yes, there is probably equal aggravation from litter and barbecues in parks, or whatever, but the point is that, in urban contexts, normally there are people there, and there is a budget, to clear this up. In the countryside, national parks, and in particular areas of outstanding natural beauty, have very small budgets for rectifying these sorts of issues that are created by minorities.
As the noble Viscount said, there is an issue with fly-tipping; it is an increasing problem and I suspect that, last year, it was partly because tips—I have been told off for using that word, and should say public waste disposal facilities—were closed for quite a long period of time. There is a real need there. I identify entirely with farmers who find that there is waste-tipping on their land and suddenly it becomes their responsibility. We somehow need to transfer the way that it works in urban and suburban areas, where there is a community responsibility to put that fly-tipping right, to the countryside. Obviously, the most important thing is to try to prevent it in the first place.
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I particularly liked my noble friend Lord Addington’s comment that we suffer from silo management in this area, whether it is between the Department of Health and the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, or the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government. These need to be brought together. It is always difficult to do that, but this is one of the areas where we absolutely need to.
I also liked the contribution of the noble Earl, Lord Devon. However, I would say that I am very much a demand and supply economist. If you make access better, you will get more of it as well. The two go together; you cannot have one without the other, and I would very much encourage that. However, it is absolutely true that we need to make that access better where we can, and much of the need for that is because of
constraints on public expenditure, not least for agencies such as Natural England, whose budget—together with that of the Environment Agency—on waste and other issues is highly constrained.
What expertise there was in the speeches by the noble Lords, Lord Bradshaw and Lord Cameron. I do not know what to say about this except that clearly, there is a need to finally resolve the issue of motorised transport access to green lanes and green spaces. However, I very much liked the comment of the noble Lord, Lord Cameron, that we need to give taxpayers value for money as well here. How should we be spending what we do on national parks, urban parks and areas of outstanding natural beauty if we do not have that audience there to appreciate it and benefit from it?
I look forward to the Minister’s response on green lanes. I hope that he, with his colleagues in other government departments, will see a way forward to improving access to the environment, making that access better but also greater. However, I come back to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, that where we can make the most of this is in the smaller, urban and suburban spaces, and we should not just concentrate on the countryside.