My Lords, I am pleased to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, again, and to follow up the points she made about skills shortages. We spoke in an earlier debate about the formula in Clause 2 relating to the condition that there is, in effect, unmet demand. I think that at the time I expressed the view that it was unsatisfactory to define that by reference to unreasonable delay and higher charges. This gives us another opportunity to look at that. I think there is merit in the formula in Amendment 21; I just think we may need to develop it a little and make it very clear that in Clause 2—Section 2, as it will be—where a Minister or the appropriate national authority is considering regulations, the condition is that there is unmet demand in that profession. What is meant by that?
The letter that the Minister sent to the Delegated Powers Committee last week said:
“The Government plans to consider various factors in determining ‘unmet demand’, and further detail on our approach is provided in the Government’s policy statement that accompanies the Bill.”
Well, the policy statement, in a very curious paragraph, says:
“Our proposed framework is intended to enable professions to meet the demands placed on them in all parts of the UK without undue cost or delay.”
In that particular context, the cost and delay appear to relate to the cost and delay of the regulators. It is rather strange.
The policy statement goes on to say that where they make these determinations, “Considerations for” what they refer to as “priority professions”—in other words, where there is demand for skills from overseas—
“will include: whether the profession is on the shortage occupation list; vacancy levels; workforce modelling and skills forecasting; and whether there are other ways that professions might address shortages … We will allow for these determinations to evolve”.
Well, some of those factors are indeed those that the noble Baroness has included in Amendment 21—not completely, but I think we are getting there. So I suggest that the route down which we should go on Report is to amend Clause 2 to say “These are the various factors that appropriate national authorities should consider”. It would not be an exhaustive list but of course, in doing so, they should also consult the regulators and the professions in relation to this.
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I say in passing that I wish my late father had been able to listen to the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay of Llandaff, discussing the benefits of the mutual recognition of qualifications for clinical scientists in the European Union, because when he was chairman of the Institute of Medical Laboratory Sciences back in the early 1970s, he spent about three years negotiating mutual recognition of qualifications for laboratory and clinical science between ourselves and the other then European Community member states. I know he would have been very unhappy that we have forgone that benefit.
Where skills shortages are concerned, we are finding our way to a solution. In my experience, the Minister is always receptive to the developing argument. In this instance an amendment on Report, when we get to it, should be one that would give Ministers the flexibility they need when determining what is a shortage profession. They certainly will not define it solely by reference to delay and cost. They will take other factors into account—and should do—including the shortage occupation list, which is of course of their own devising.
I also wanted to speak to Amendment 22, which also has some merit. As the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, said, we have the benefit of the Grimstone rule, which applies to negotiating objectives. Since the passage of the Trade Bill through this House, that was further reinforced by the Secretary of State for International Trade reiterating and extending it to the International Trade Committee in the other place—so it is firmly entrenched. In so far as international recognition agreements have negotiating objectives, it will clearly apply in the same way.
I want to focus now on what is in subsection (5) of the proposed new clause about publishing an impact assessment on “regulatory independence”. Perhaps I might suggest that all this should form part of the Explanatory Memorandum which accompanies any international agreement laid under the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act. I hope the Minister might confirm that that issue will be included in the Explanatory Memorandum when we get to it. I would also emphasise that the Explanatory Memorandum should be very clear about how the international recognition agreements are to be implemented in legislation.
In his letter last week to the Delegated Powers Committee, my noble friend the Minister said that
“all treaties agreed by the UK will be subject to the procedure set out”
in CRaG. He continued:
“It is only after that procedure, and the requisite parliamentary processes have been completed, that this power would be used”.
Now once an international recognition agreement has been laid under CRaG, it will be reported to this House, or the other place, and it may be the subject of debate in these Houses.
At that point, it seems really important that in the report of an international recognition agreement it is clear how it is to be implemented in legislation, even if the necessary statutory instruments have not yet been drafted. We need to be very clear about how it is going to work. If it requires primary legislation—or changes to primary legislation—that should be set out very clearly, because it is at that point that the House should take a view as to whether the treaty, or the international recognition agreement, is something that the House would support.
If the House is not going to support it in legislation, it should not agree that it should be ratified. We cannot stop ratification—the other place can—but, certainly, at that stage, Ministers should not proceed with ratification in anticipation of the legislation being enacted if there are likely to be any subsequent parliamentary objections to that. This sequencing is rather important, and I hope that my noble friend will agree that it should mean that CRaG should be very clear about the implementation of legislation, which should proceed after CRaG scrutiny but before ratification. I am sure that we will come back to that at a later stage. Subject to that, I think that there is merit in Amendments 21 and 22.