My Lords, these amendments have brought about a fulsome and entirely appropriate debate about respecting the devolution settlements for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland as the Bill continues its passage through the House.
Let me start by saying, in a direct answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, that I, too, find her a very nice person, although I must say that I think she has a suspicious mind in relation to this Bill. I assure her and other noble Lords that there is nothing going on about the timing of FTAs which is driving this Bill.
On a point of fact, the Bill was seen by the Administrations of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland on 22 April. This was just eight days after I first saw it, so it was not hidden or kept in a drawer away from the DAs until the last possible moment. It was seen by them pretty much as soon as I saw it after it had been prepared.
I assure noble Lords at the outset that the Government fully respect the devolution settlements. Devolved matters should of course be, except in the most exceptional circumstances, for the devolved Administrations to legislate on. The Government have no desire for this
Bill to chip away at that in any way. I can confirm that we will seek legislative consent for the Bill in line with the Sewel convention, and we do not in any way intend to use this Bill to chip away at the devolution settlements.
I can confirm for the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay of Llandaff, that it is not part of our trade policy to compromise our standards. We have had many debates about that in this House. Free trade agreements will not compromise our standards or those of regulators. No free trade agreement will have the power to do that.
I thank the noble Lord, Lord Purvis of Tweed, for tabling Amendment 57 concerning the authority by whom regulations may be made and concurrent powers. I suggest that it is entirely fitting that the current definition of “appropriate national authority” in Clause 14 means that Scottish and Welsh Ministers and Northern Ireland departments are the appropriate national authorities and may make regulations, provided, of course, that they fall within the competence of the relevant devolved legislature. In direct answer to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd, let me say that the Government do not intend to disturb this in any way.
The issue is that this is a very complex landscape. As I have said before, it involves 160 professions and 50 regulators. Regulation varies between professions. Some professions are regulated on a UK-wide basis despite being within devolved competence. Some professions are also regulated across Great Britain. So the complexity of the regulatory landscape makes the use of concurrent powers important to the Bill’s operation in a purely practical sense. They are meant to be entirely practical and are not intended to undermine the authority of the devolved Administrations in any way. They make sure that professions that fall within devolved competence could have regulations brought forward across several parts of the UK by the relevant national authority. This will provide those professions with certainty and continuity.
Amendment 49, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter of Kentish Town, aims to ensure that Clause 9 does not affect the establishment or operation of a common framework. The noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, also made this point. I am a huge enthusiast for common frameworks to make our systems work as efficiently as possible.
As noble Lords know, the common framework on the regulation of professional qualifications is under development between the UK Government, the Scottish Government, the Welsh Government and the Northern Ireland Executive to ensure a common approach on powers that have returned following our exit from the European Union and which intersect with devolved competence. Although this amendment relates specifically to Clause 9, let me assure noble Lords that we are committed to ensuring that the provisions in this Bill work alongside the common frameworks programme. We absolutely will consider this as we develop the framework further. The Bill does not constrain that.
There was a hiatus in the development of this framework, while work paused during the election period in Wales and Scotland. We are very keen now
to resume discussions to seek collective agreement on the timeline for delivery of the framework, including concentration on interactions with this Bill.
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I now turn to Amendments 13, 24 and 35, tabled by my noble friend Lady McIntosh of Pickering, that relate to consultation with the devolved Administrations and other interested parties. I fully agree that it is important for the relevant national authority to engage with a range of stakeholders before making regulations. Because of the complexity of these matters, it would be the height of foolishness not to do that.
Starting with Amendment 13, we have already spent considerable time debating the purpose and mechanics of Clause 1. In determining which professions meet the conditions set out in Clause 2, and before making any regulations under Clause 1, there would, of course, be close engagement with interested parties, including the devolved Administrations.
Amendment 24 seeks to introduce a similar requirement to consult before regulations are laid to implement international agreements under Clause 3. In all international negotiations relating to professional qualifications, a key concern for the Government has been ensuring the autonomy of regulators and protecting UK standards, as I said earlier. In light of the Government’s concern, and the importance that we attach to this point, there are already extensive engagement mechanisms for consulting before and during these negotiations. As noble Lords have perhaps heard me say before, the Department for International Trade already engages with a range of parties, including regulators and devolved Administrations, to understand their priorities and inform the UK’s approach to trade agreements with future trade partners. Under these amendments, the appropriate national authority would be required to consult before laying regulations to implement these agreements. I hope my noble friend is reassured that the Government, of necessity, would have concluded extensive engagement ahead of this point in order to actually create the free trade agreement in the first place.
Turning to my noble friend’s amendment to Clause 5, which introduces a requirement to consult before laying regulations that make consequential amendments following the revocation of the existing EU-derived recognition system, I envisage that these enactments would be very limited in scope. They are necessary purely to tidy up the statute book after revoking the existing EU-derived system, for example by removing cross-references to the current system in other regulations. Given that these are primarily small fixes, it would be disproportionate to consult on them. The Government will, of course, work closely with interested parties to ensure that there are no unintended impacts of bringing forward these consequential amendments.
I now turn to the assistance centre, to clarify some of the misconceptions that perhaps exist about this. I would like to thank my noble friend Lady McIntosh of Pickering, the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes of Cumnock, and the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, for their amendments. For their comments made during the debate, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Bennachie, and others.
I think where the confusion arises is that the assistance centre is already in operation, and the contract that the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, referred to is already in existence. The assistance centre is in operation because that was a consequence of the EU legislation. When the EU legislation is no longer in operation in relation to this area, if we are to continue with an assistance centre, we need new legislative cover to do it.
Perhaps I can correct a misconception about the size and nature of this centre. It is basically a focal point —a signposting mechanism that tells people where to go to get more information about professions. I think it employs either two or three people. So I hope I can assure the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope of Craighead, that this centre is de minimis and meant to be very helpful, as shown by how it is used. I looked up some statistics: it received 1,600 queries between June 2020 and May 2021. These queries can be as simple as saying, “What is the address of the place I have to write to, to find out how I become a nurse in Great Britain?” Its website received 2,000 hits in May 2021. So it is a signposting service, as opposed to the more grandiose service that I suspect some noble Lords suspect it is.
Of course, we support the aims of close collaboration with the devolved Administrations that underpin these amendments. However, we believe that, given the nature of this assistance centre, the duties as set out in the amendments introduce unnecessary, disproportionate burdens. The existing contract for the assistance centre comes to an end in 2022—this is the contract that the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, referred to. Commercial confidentiality means that I cannot give the value of the contract, but I can tell noble Lords that it is a surprisingly small sum, given the extent of the work that the assistance centre does.
I can absolutely reassure noble Lords, and give a commitment to this effect, that my officials will work closely with their counterparts in the devolved Administrations as we consider the future of this service. No new contract will be entered into without officials consulting their counterparts in the devolved Administrations. So I hope noble Lords will accept that there is no need to place this requirement in legislation, given the scale and scope of this assistance centre. Of course, my officials already engage with the devolved Administrations on this matter. They need to get contact points, to know where to refer people to who are coming to the assistance centre. Naturally, the consult with the devolved Administrations and the devolved regulators about that.
Finally, I would like to reassure the House that, as well as working closely with the devolved Administrations, the Government have engaged with regulators and professional bodies that fall within devolved competence, such as legal and education sectors, as we developed the proposals in the Bill, and we will continue to do so.
Before I conclude, I turn quickly to the question that the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, asked about the interaction between the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 and this Bill. I hope I can reassure noble Lords by saying that there is no direct interaction between the framework for recognising overseas
qualifications in this Bill and the United Kingdom Internal Market Act. This is because the recognition framework in this Bill, as and when applied, would be limited to the recognition of professional qualifications and experience gained overseas. The principles and processes, under the United Kingdom Internal Market Act, are limited to the recognition of professional qualifications held by UK residents, and experience obtained mainly in the UK.
The question of fees was raised again by the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, on this group. I think it might be helpful to noble Lords if I was to write to the noble Lord, and place a copy in the Library, setting out exactly and clarifying the policy on fees, and how the various bits about fees interrelate in this Bill, so that, frankly, everybody knows what we are arguing about, as and when we argue about that.
That brings to an end my points on this group. I hope that I have managed at least in part—although I am well aware that my assurances from the Dispatch Box are not always taken with the weight that I would wish them to be—to reassure noble Lords about our approach with regard to engagement with the devolved Administrations, as well as the use of concurrent powers. I would also like to reassure once again the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, that there is nothing funny going on in relation to this.
I will of course be happy to discuss these matters further. Anyone who has listened to our debate could not help but be struck by the conviction of those who have spoken about these matters. I am happy to discuss them further with noble Lords, but I hope that my noble friend will feel able to withdraw her amendment at this stage.