My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Empey. I support Amendments 117 and 125, to which four noble Lords with a special interest in Wales have put their names. I should like to add a Scottish point of view when I say that the amendments that they propose have everything to commend them, and the arguments that they put forward are ones that I entirely endorse and support.
The key point underlying both these amendments was expressed by the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles of Berkhamsted, when she said that these matters should be consensual and the body taking the decision should represent all four nations. Whatever the structure of that body, and indeed whichever body we are talking about—the options are before us in these various amendments—it has to command the confidence of all four nations.
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Sub-paragraph (2A), as set out in the Bill as it stands, provides that before making an appointment the Secretary of State must consult the Scottish Ministers, the Welsh Ministers and the Department for the Economy in Northern Ireland. However, consultation, as the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, put it so well, is not a guarantee of an even-handed approach being carried through all the processes that the body is responsible for conducting, so it does not give the confidence that is needed. The crucial point underlying all these arguments is that, whatever the structure, it must be designed to minimise the risk of suspicion and conflict.
I thought the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, made an important point when she drew attention to the fact that the CMA is a UK body and that it seeks to operate in the best interests of all four nations. I am sure that is right, and of course one would not want in any way to question its ability to do that. The problem is that the decisions that it takes are seen as decisions taken in Westminster, and that that is true of decisions taken in Whitehall as well. From the distance at which the devolved Administrations are operating, it is easy to fall into the trap that the noble Baroness would wish us not to—I would not wish to do it myself—which is to regard these bodies as English and not truly representing the UK. That is the risk that we run if we do not pay due attention to the desire of the devolved Administrations to be properly represented on these bodies. It is important that that should be recognised, not only for its own sake in supporting the devolution arrangements but also to avoid the risk of the bodies themselves being misunderstood, particularly when they take decisions that are regarded as unpopular in the devolved Administrations.
Amendments 117 and 125 are extremely important. I congratulate the Welsh Government, those who have brought the amendments forward and those who have spoken in support of them, and I offer them my full support.